PrusaSlicer 2.3 Printer Settings/Physical Printers confusion
 

PrusaSlicer 2.3 Printer Settings/Physical Printers confusion  

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buckeyestargazer
(@buckeyestargazer)
Estimable Member

In PrusaSlicer 2.3 under Printer Settings there is now the option for "User Presets" and "Physical Printers".  In previous versions I had set up two printer profiles and those profiles were imported into User Presets.  There was also a message saying something about the print host upload settings now being moved to Physical Printers.  Assuming I needed to create two new Physical Printers I did so with the print host upload settings, but then discovered that the User Presets also already contained that information.

I'm confused as to why there is now a separate section for "Physical Printers" vs "User Presets"?  They both appear to do the same thing.

Best Answer by Neophyl:

All the physical connection information that used to be under printer presets like the octoprint settings etc are no longer there.  They are now under the physical printer settings.

So you can now define 1 physical printer and put your octoprint or other connection details in etc and then you can have multiple printer profiles like before with different nozzle sizes  for example assigned to the one physical printer. 
It doesn't make a bit of difference for those with one or 2 different printers except to make it more complicated for us but for those running print farms you can now swap and assign the profiles to various 'actual' printers and apparently it makes it easier for them.  It was done in response to user requests on github iirc.

Posted : 18/01/2021 2:58 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

All the physical connection information that used to be under printer presets like the octoprint settings etc are no longer there.  They are now under the physical printer settings.

So you can now define 1 physical printer and put your octoprint or other connection details in etc and then you can have multiple printer profiles like before with different nozzle sizes  for example assigned to the one physical printer. 
It doesn't make a bit of difference for those with one or 2 different printers except to make it more complicated for us but for those running print farms you can now swap and assign the profiles to various 'actual' printers and apparently it makes it easier for them.  It was done in response to user requests on github iirc.

Posted : 18/01/2021 5:07 pm
buckeyestargazer
(@buckeyestargazer)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @neophyl

All the physical connection information that used to be under printer presets like the octoprint settings etc are no longer there.  They are now under the physical printer settings.

So you can now define 1 physical printer and put your octoprint or other connection details in etc and then you can have multiple printer profiles like before with different nozzle sizes  for example assigned to the one physical printer. 
It doesn't make a bit of difference for those with one or 2 different printers except to make it more complicated for us but for those running print farms you can now swap and assign the profiles to various 'actual' printers and apparently it makes it easier for them.  It was done in response to user requests on github iirc.

Ah OK, that makes sense.  I have two printers, each with it's own octoprint/pi and it was just a bit confusing to me because both the "User Presets" and "Physical Printers" can both contain the host API information, but I've discovered that only the Physical Printer can upload to octopi.  

Posted : 18/01/2021 5:12 pm
SputnikOC3D
(@sputnikoc3d)
Active Member
Posted by: @neophyl

All the physical connection information that used to be under printer presets like the octoprint settings etc are no longer there.  They are now under the physical printer settings.

So you can now define 1 physical printer and put your octoprint or other connection details in etc and then you can have multiple printer profiles like before with different nozzle sizes  for example assigned to the one physical printer. 
It doesn't make a bit of difference for those with one or 2 different printers except to make it more complicated for us but for those running print farms you can now swap and assign the profiles to various 'actual' printers and apparently it makes it easier for them.  It was done in response to user requests on github iirc.

Thank you for your post.  I have read till my eyes are bleeding and attempted many different avenues to accomplish that of which you speak.

PS 2.3. full release - It sees and shows me all my prior pre built custom profiles for al lthe things you mention - materials - nozzle sizes et al ... I had setup previously for 3 different printers and the different available combinations.  Its 38 custom profiles across 3 different Non Prusa printers [ Caribou 3d / Voron 2.4 ] stuff like Mosquito with NozzleX or vanadium in differing sizes - e3d v6 in various nozzle sizes for many different materials from PLA+ to Polycarbonite w/ Cf printed on a custom sized Garolite Surface ... I mention these things so Prusa people reading this may understand why someone might want more than just 2 or 4 custom profiles for printing PLA out of .4 brass nozzle.  My 3:1 geared Bondtech setup with a mosquito behaves quite differntly with petg than my stock Prusa Extruder assembly.  Ohh and btw - Duet wifi - so not having the networking connection data in the profiles makes this rather challenging to get my slices into the Duet DWC SD card.

All that said ... I cant seem to just merely "associate" a custom printer profile with one of the Physical Printers I have created. After the first profile attached to the physical printer - it seems to make me create a NEW physical printer else it errors and If I select one of the 3 existing physical printers - it errors saying this Printer Name Already exists - create a new one.

Is there or can someone create a video tutorial on how to accomplish this ?   Ive read the Famous "6 paragraphs" of release notes on this 5x.  It still doesnt adequately explain how to make this work effectively.  It sure explains WHY they made these changes - but not how to use this new "feature".  At least not to me ...   Been fighting this for a couple weeks now 

 

Posted : 20/01/2021 8:24 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

Hey don’t ask me lol. I only have 2 printers currently. A modified mk3 with a bunny/bear geared extruder and a modified cr10s with linear rails and a microswiss hot end. Both with flash air sd cards so the whole octoprint thing doesn’t effect me. It seems pretty usual for Prusa documentation to lag behind the curve. Actually not just Prusa but tech companies in general. No one wants to do manuals, doing manuals sucks. 

The knowledge base is a good start but only if they can keep it up to date. 

Posted : 20/01/2021 8:32 pm
avh
 avh
(@avh)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @sputnikoc3d
All that said ... I cant seem to just merely "associate" a custom printer profile with one of the Physical Printers I have created. After the first profile attached to the physical printer - it seems to make me create a NEW physical printer else it errors and If I select one of the 3 existing physical printers - it errors saying this Printer Name Already exists - create a new one.

My understanding is that you create a new physical printer for every printer profile you have. For example I have a Prusa Mini with 3 different nozzles so I currently have 3 different printer profiles (1 for each nozzle size).

I can then create 3 physical printers based on those 3 profiles, one physical printer per profile. The stupid thing here is that you will have to add your Print Host settings to each physical printer profile separately, although the host settings are probably always the same.

Posted : 20/01/2021 8:56 pm
SputnikOC3D
(@sputnikoc3d)
Active Member
Posted by: @avh
Posted by: @sputnikoc3d
All that said ... I cant seem to just merely "associate" a custom printer profile with one of the Physical Printers I have created. After the first profile attached to the physical printer - it seems to make me create a NEW physical printer else it errors and If I select one of the 3 existing physical printers - it errors saying this Printer Name Already exists - create a new one.

My understanding is that you create a new physical printer for every printer profile you have. For example I have a Prusa Mini with 3 different nozzles so I currently have 3 different printer profiles (1 for each nozzle size).

I can then create 3 physical printers based on those 3 profiles, one physical printer per profile. The stupid thing here is that you will have to add your Print Host settings to each physical printer profile separately, although the host settings are probably always the same.

Ok well Ive gotten that approach to save in the app ... but reading the release notes and the discussions as to WHY they did this - other than the networking security issues - the implementation is counter productive to the stated design intention ... Uggghhhh 

I sure hope this is not the case, and that there is a different way to do this !!!  having 38 different physical printers seems very cumbersome

Posted : 20/01/2021 9:45 pm
buckeyestargazer
(@buckeyestargazer)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @avh
Posted by: @sputnikoc3d
All that said ... I cant seem to just merely "associate" a custom printer profile with one of the Physical Printers I have created. After the first profile attached to the physical printer - it seems to make me create a NEW physical printer else it errors and If I select one of the 3 existing physical printers - it errors saying this Printer Name Already exists - create a new one.

My understanding is that you create a new physical printer for every printer profile you have. For example I have a Prusa Mini with 3 different nozzles so I currently have 3 different printer profiles (1 for each nozzle size).

I can then create 3 physical printers based on those 3 profiles, one physical printer per profile. The stupid thing here is that you will have to add your Print Host settings to each physical printer profile separately, although the host settings are probably always the same.

There has to be another point to this.  Why would you need to basically duplicate your "user presets" by making a "physical printer" for each preset?  This whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

Posted : 20/01/2021 9:48 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @buckeyestargazer

[...] There has to be another point to this.  Why would you need to basically duplicate your "user presets" by making a "physical printer" for each preset?  This whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

The goal is, I think, to reduce the amount of redundancy in printer configurations. Contrast this with other slicers that bunch all settings into one giant configuration that largely has to be duplicated with every profile. Even with just one printer, I find it cumbersome to maintain profiles using the same printer with multiple nozzle sizes. If I make a change (e.g. infill pattern), I have to copy that change into every profile for every nozzle size. With the approach used in PrusaSlicer, I can just save one print profile off and -- with a bit of care -- use it with every printer profile for the same printer.

The recent change to separate physical printer connection details away from the printer profile makes sense. I maintain a separate printer profile for each of 9 nozzle sizes I commonly swap between. It's nice to be able to associate all of the printers with this one connection profile.

Unfortunately, the documentation hasn't caught up to the release. I spent some time working through the details and have it worked out. Here's a snippet from my current printer definition file:

[printer:*Mk3 Baseline (20210111)*]
[... settings common to all printer profiles ...]

[printer:Mk3 0.15 nozzle (20210111)]
inherits = *Mk3 Baseline (20210111)*
[... nozzle settings ...]

[...]

[physical_printer:Prusa i3 Mk3]
host_type = octoprint
preset_name = Mk3 0.15 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.20 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.25 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.30 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.35 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.40 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.50 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.60 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 0.80 nozzle (20210111);Mk3 1.00 nozzle (20210111)
print_host = mk3.ttlexceeded.com
printer_technology = FFF
printhost_apikey = 334F20CC87634E818A27E59AC33D48B8
printhost_authorization_type = key
printhost_cafile =
printhost_password =
printhost_port =
printhost_user =

The profile names are the link between each section.

  • Printer profiles can inherit settings using inherits=
  • Physical printers can be associated with printer profiles with preset_name =

The ability to inherit settings between profiles is very powerful and eliminates most of the tedium of maintaining multiple profiles. I have my printer definitions for each printer saved off in one config bundle, print settings in another, and filaments in a 3rd. I just have to remember to edit the baseline profiles when changing a setting I want across all profiles. Managing profiles as external config bundles has greatly simplified my life.

I wish they'd take it a step further and allow separate extruder/nozzle profiles to be associated with each printer profile. Someday, it would be nice if they put a nice GUI interface in front of all this, but I much prefer this approach for consistency. I dread going back to Cura and ideaMaker and having to comb through an entire settings profile to verify that I have the right filament, printer, and print settings.

This post was modified 2 months ago by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 20/01/2021 10:50 pm
avh liked
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @avh

[...] My understanding is that you create a new physical printer for every printer profile you have. For example I have a Prusa Mini with 3 different nozzles so I currently have 3 different printer profiles (1 for each nozzle size).

If you create a baseline set of printer settings (hardware settings) and have each of your nozzle size profiles inherit that, you literally only need a half dozen of lines for each nozzle configuration. Unfortunately, there's no GUI front end for this yet, but the config is straightforward. See my previous post for details.

I can then create 3 physical printers based on those 3 profiles, one physical printer per profile. The stupid thing here is that you will have to add your Print Host settings to each physical printer profile separately, although the host settings are probably always the same.

You only need ONE physical printer profile. You can link it to each of the 3 nozzle profiles using preset_name = (see previous post). 

The biggest shortcoming is that you can only inherit (as I understand it) between profiles in the same physical config bundle file. If you could inherit from the Prusa .ini file, this process would be even more efficient.

Here's a link to my config bundle for my Mk3 printer if you're interested.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 20/01/2021 10:56 pm
SputnikOC3D
(@sputnikoc3d)
Active Member

Yes ... this is my understanding working with relational databases in the past  - not sure how theyre doing this in a flat text file environment -0 sure its not trivial ... but Im not sure Im following how youre handling this - will re read a few times.  The dialog box interface theyve created does NOT seem to allow the relational linking of multiple profiles to a Distinct Physical Printer in my release version.

 

The profile names are the link between each section.

  • Printer profiles can inherit settings using inherits=
  • Physical printers can be associated with printer profiles with preset_name =

The ability to inherit settings between profiles is very powerful and eliminates most of the tedium of maintaining multiple profiles. I have my printer definitions for each printer saved off in one config bundle, print settings in another, and filaments in a 3rd. I just have to remember to edit the baseline profiles when changing a setting I want across all profiles. Managing profiles as external config bundles has greatly simplified my life.

Posted : 20/01/2021 10:57 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

A bit of expansion: If you set up your printer config bundle correctly, additional physical printer profiles are not automatically created. They key is, I think (not having any better documentation than anybody else) that every printer profile must be referenced by a physical printer profile or it will be associated with a new physical printer automatically when the bundle is imported.

Yes, it's definitely clunky, but working well under the hood. A few interface cleanups and it should be a very powerful capability for those running multi-printer setups.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 20/01/2021 11:00 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @sputnikoc3d

Yes ... this is my understanding working with relational databases in the past  - not sure how theyre doing this in a flat text file environment -0 sure its not trivial ... but Im not sure Im following how youre handling this - will re read a few times. 

It's definitely *not* a database... and I do hope it doesn't go that way. The configuration files are a bit overwhelming, but they're relatively easy to maintain. If we could inherit from separate files, it would be ideal. I think we're in the situation where the developers are moving at full speed implementing some really great features, and the interface design and documentation hasn't caught up. Given the situation in the world, I'm happy with their priorities and hope they get a chance to catch up before too long.

The dialog box interface theyve created does NOT seem to allow the relational linking of multiple profiles to a Distinct Physical Printer in my release version.

No, you can't currently set this up in the GUI, unfortunately. 

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 20/01/2021 11:20 pm
buckeyestargazer
(@buckeyestargazer)
Estimable Member

@bobstro  Thanks for the explanation, you are without a doubt the 3D printing guru.  But this is all a complete mystery to me.  😀 I'm glad it's all there for those who need it.  But I need a GUI....

Posted : 21/01/2021 12:22 am
beboyle
(@beboyle)
New Member

I'm confused, too, but maybe that's just because this doesn't do what I wanted. I would like to be able to associate one physical printer with multiple profiles, for example different nozzle sizes, without having to duplicate the physical printer. If I can't do that then this "feature" just adds redundant work and doubles the number of printers I have to have defined. Apparently rather than associating multiple profiles to one printer, this feature is intended to let people with a bunch of almost identical (other than network info) printers associate one profile to multiple printers, so they can use the profile on whichever printer they like. That does nothing for me since my printers are all very different from each other and can't share profiles. 

Posted : 21/01/2021 3:57 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @beboyle

I'm confused, too, but maybe that's just because this doesn't do what I wanted. I would like to be able to associate one physical printer with multiple profiles, for example different nozzle sizes, without having to duplicate the physical printer. If I can't do that then this "feature" just adds redundant work and doubles the number of printers I have to have defined.

This setup will do exactly what you're describing. It's just not well document, nor properly exposed in the GUI yet. Take a look at my samples above.

  • Printer profiles can inherit settings using inherits=. You can create one master printer profile (see my baseline example) and have individual printer profiles inherit any or all settings from that. You can also cascade profiles, so a sub-profile might inherit settings from a baseline, and a sub-sub-profile from the sub-profile. This reduces a lot of redundancy that is a pain to maintain in the GUI (e.g. gcode). I use this approach to define a master baseline printer definition with most of the desired settings, then sub-profiles for each nozzle size.
  • Physical printers can be associated with printer profiles with preset_name =. Just be sure to specify the printer profile name exactly in the preset_name= line. If any printer profiles are not associated with your physical printer profile, you will get the annoying "extra" physical printer and associated popups.

Apparently rather than associating multiple profiles to one printer, this feature is intended to let people with a bunch of almost identical (other than network info) printers associate one profile to multiple printers, so they can use the profile on whichever printer they like. That does nothing for me since my printers are all very different from each other and can't share profiles. 

I use PrusaSlicer's approach to maintain two totally different printers: My Prusa i3 Mk3 and an Artillery Sidewinder X1. This approach is working very well for me. A couple of tips:

  1. Maintain separate configuration bundle (.ini) files for each printer. That way you can reload changes for one without resetting the others. This should contain your baseline, sub-profiles for each nozzle, and physical printer definition. I've noticed that the Prusa profiles do not always specify the printer_model setting. Using that setting greatly simplifies setting up profile dependencies. I have set MK3 for my Prusa, SWX1 for my Sidewinder.
  2. Similarly, create separate configuration bundle (.ini) files for print settings. I like to use different settings for each printer, so maintain a print setting configuration bundle for each. You can use inheritance here again to reduce redundancy, as well as dependencies to reduce the amount of clutter in the menus.
  3. Not surprisingly, keeping filament profiles in their own bundle keeps these frequently-changing profiles from screwing with your more stable printer and print settings. I don't use inheritance all that much in the filament profiles, but Prusa has taken this to an extreme with their profiles. Look in the default .ini for examples.
  4. Make a point of transferring any changes you make on the fly in the slicer to your config bundles. It is really nice to be able to use the configuration assistant to remove all of my custom files and reload a clean configuration in seconds, but it's always aggravating to realize I lost a good filament profile.

It is a little frustrating that so much of this is currently hidden under the hood, but I am also pleased to see these capabilities being thought about and implemented. As the GUI and documentation catch up with the underlying features, PrusaSlicer should become even more powerful. Given what's going on in the world and what Prusa has been up to in the last 12 months, I'm glad to see that they are still pouring so many resources into an open-source slicer that does not directly generate profit for them. 

I've worked out most of the kinks with the config bundles. While we wait for the official solutions, I and others are happy to share information on a user-to-user basis in the meantime. Feel free to spell out specifically what you're trying to accomplish and we'll see what we can come up with.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 21/01/2021 3:53 pm
avh liked
SputnikOC3D
(@sputnikoc3d)
Active Member

@beboyle

My MAN!!! exactly brother ... been struggling to try and communicate and sort this.  That was rather succinct and same issue I'm experiencing.

Posted : 21/01/2021 7:09 pm
SputnikOC3D
(@sputnikoc3d)
Active Member

Where did you read to learn how to do this ? 

I was rebuffed soundly in earlier postings on this forum about my displeasure that such a change that literally broke the functionality - for all but those on a stock Prusa - was poorly documented and the GUI was non functional.  I was further told that it was in fact well documented in Release Notes on the Github - 6 paragraphs worth of info in fact.  Ive read those 6 paragrpahs over and over and your posts over and over.

This setup will do exactly what you're describing. It's just not well document, nor properly exposed in the GUI yet. Take a look at my samples above.

 

Posted : 21/01/2021 8:15 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @sputnikoc3d

Where did you read to learn how to do this ? 

I didn't read anything. I simply examined working configurations from the prusa profiles and adapted them to my setup. While nothing is documented very well at this point, the configuration setting names are pretty clear. It took 2-3 tries to get it to work without creating spurious printers, but I can see what the intent is well enough. I've got it to the point that I can wipe all configurations out and be back up and running in a matter of minutes.

I was rebuffed soundly in earlier postings on this forum about my displeasure that such a change that literally broke the functionality - for all but those on a stock Prusa - was poorly documented and the GUI was non functional.

I responded to your original query but there was no follow-up. I briefly explained this same process and provided examples at that time.

  I was further told that it was in fact well documented in Release Notes on the Github - 6 paragraphs worth of info in fact.  Ive read those 6 paragrpahs over and over and your posts over and over.

I don't recall seeing any questions from you in response to my previous post. Apologies if I missed any, but December is a rather busy month and I'm not on here all the time.

The GitHub notes explain why Prusa has done this, and it makes good sense to me. They're happy to develop an open-source project that anybody can use, but they're not taking on the responsibility for developing, maintaining, and supporting configurations for the manufacturers that like to dump support costs onto others. Prusa isn't doing anything to stop us from helping each other out (for example, another popular free slicer is NOT open-source) so it's a definite win for the user. If you're not happy with the level of support for your printer, you really need to take the issue up with the manufacturer you purchased the equipment from.

I think this feature is intended to support those who run multi-printer farms of the same type of printer. Prusa is (eventually) going to release their print farm control software, and this may be part of that. By allowing different physical printers -- actually, network connections to a specific physical printer -- to be configured, you can use the same printer (nozzle & mechanics), print, and filament settings with 1 to hundreds of individual printers. 

It's going to be less useful to a hobbyist with a collection of different printers, but still handy in that you ONLY have to configure a separate physical printer profile. You don't have to work with one massive profile that includes printer, print, and filament settings as one difficult-to-maintain blob. You can, for example, maintain separate printer settings for different machine limits (e.g. different acceleration & jerk for quality configurations), custom gcode variants (test towers versus normal prints), all without having to re-enter the network setup. You can use the same filament and print settings profiles with each variant and don't have copy or export/import anything between them.

If you'd care to elaborate more on what exactly you want to do, I'm willing to take another stab at helping you out. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 21/01/2021 9:28 pm
SputnikOC3D
(@sputnikoc3d)
Active Member

Ok so you do recall the other post / thread.  I ceased reply and posts there as it seemed a dated thread ... didnt seem to apply to new versions and truthfully - futile.

I was advised that there were ample instructions - actually by what I believe to be a dev, on the Prusa Slicer Users FB Group - not by you.  I dont feel as if you gave me a hard time.  I felt like the devs reply was both condescending and wholly inadequate, but thats a different story.  Not worthy of continuing.

I totally see and understand the design intent - but its pretty much unworkable for most of us - and I fail to understand what the rush was to roll out this Feature sans ample docs at least, or a functioning GUI that worked to the goal of the design ? 

 

Posted : 21/01/2021 10:52 pm
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