How do I set Detachable Support as default?
 

How do I set Detachable Support as default?  

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frank.p8
(@frank-p8)
Trusted Member

Prusa MK3S with PS 2.2.0.  I keep having to change the Z-distance for supports from 0.1 to 0.2 to get a support structure that I can actually remove without slicing up my fingers.  How do I change the default to 0.2 (detachable)?  

TIA,

Frank

 

Posted : 15/06/2020 3:51 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Reputable Member

Probably the easiest way is to start with the defaults, change the Z distance, and save as a config snapshot.

Posted : 15/06/2020 6:38 am
rainer
(@rainer)
Active Member

What's wrong with making the change, then Save current Print Settings to create a custom preset? That's how I do it. 

Posted : 15/06/2020 11:18 am
frank.p8
(@frank-p8)
Trusted Member

OK, I was able to do that.  I have to say though, that it seems a bit awkward to have to create a complete set of modified print settings (one for each of the 8 standard quality profiles) just to change one print setting.  Isn't there any way to change the contact Z distance across all profiles?

Frank

 

Posted : 15/06/2020 4:25 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

Yes there is, you could edit the ini file that all the prusa presets use in the inherits fields.  However the next time there’s a config download from prusa it would over write the changes you made.  unless prusa update their defaults. 
Actually that’s a good reason to make your own copies anyway as Prusa *could* at any time change settings in their profiles and it would update without you knowing what exactly was changed. 

Posted : 15/06/2020 4:33 pm
dccameron liked
frank.p8
(@frank-p8)
Trusted Member

I tried saving a config snapshot, but this did not seem to affect anything, even though my 'Detachable Support' config snapshot was shown  as 'Active'.

So, If I understand the options correctly:

  • I can edit the .ini file (assuming I can find it and figure out how to edit it), but any edits I make will be overwritten at the next update - wonderful.
  • I can modify each and every print setup with that single change to the 'contact Z distance' setting.  However, if I do this and Prusa later updates all the standard configurations with something that actually makes things better, I won't get the benefit of these changes because I'm still using my modified print configs - wonderful
  • I can take a snapshot of my current configuration and save it (where?), but it doesn't seem to do anything  - wonderful.

Long ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a Linux guru.  In that world, IIRC, there were always 'config' and 'user_config' arrangements where the 'config' file was updated by the app update facility, and the 'user_config' applied *after* any updates by the app, so changes to 'user_config' didn't get wiped out by changes to 'config',  and the 'user_config' could change *just one thing*.  Seems like that model has been forgotten...

Did I miss anything?

 

TIA,

 

Frank

 

Posted : 15/06/2020 4:59 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Reputable Member

You are correct, I just tried it and it did not work.

When I have some time I may look into those .ini files, as I do think it would be handy to be able to adjust defaults.

Posted : 15/06/2020 5:08 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

@frank-p8

Not quite, the vendor spaces do use a inherits mechanism. So for example for the default pla there’s are specific settings, a pla filament profile that is based on the basic one will over ride any settings from the one it’s based on if they were defined.  Another profile based on that so further down the tree inherits from both. This is all within the vendor space. So any copies you save with unique names (which they have to be anyway as you can’t modify the built in profiles) will have your changes built on top of the profiles they are based on.  However if prusa changed the base default pla profile then yours would also be updated for those settings you haven’t changed.   So for example if you had changed the cooling % but not the temperature and prusa updated that you could find your print temps changing.  You are either in the vendor space or you aren’t, there doesn’t seem to be a halfway house. 
unless you detach the profile in which case it breaks the inherits and makes it stand alone as such. 
so by editing the base profiles it can change all those inherits values, but only until the next update which will put them all back to the prusa values.

The config bundles are a way of saving and restoring all your custom profiles (they don’t save the built in ones) so that you can back them up or copy them from machine to machine. You can save them anywhere you like. It’s basically just an xml file. Bundle does them all and config just does the ones currently selected. 
I use them to keep my work and home pc in sync and also when I’m running a alpha or beta version of prusa slicer I can copy the profiles from the release version to the test versions. 

Posted : 15/06/2020 5:25 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

Prusa has provided a good summary of the vendor bundles approach here. It's a new way of doing things, but now that PrusaSlicer is supporting 3rd party printers (and presumably filaments), I can see why they want to delineate between their "officially supported" profiles and others. 

You can use inheritance to simplify maintaining multiple profiles based on a common base of settings. However, you can only inherit within a single profile (.ini file). This means that you can't inherit from one of the Prusa profiles in your own profiles. I find it easiest to just copy settings to a *baseline* configuration in my bundle and inherit from that.

You can include multiple levels of inheritance within a single bundle. I have mine set up as:

I create the bundle (.ini) file top-to-bottom, with the bottom level being the final selections I pick from in PrusaSlicer drop boxes:

  • *baseline* is a direct copy of the Prusa profile I want to base my settings on. While it would be nice to be able to link to the Prusa profiles and have them update whenever changed, that's also dangerous as a change made by Prusa might ripple throughout my configurations without advance warning. The lesser of 2 weevils IMO. Note that prepending and appending asterisks to the name hides it from selection boxes.
  • variant inherits from *baseline*, changing only those values needed for this "tree". For example, I want separate QUALITY and SPEED variants, so I create variants that inherit from *baseline* but use different speeds and accelerations for each. Tricky bit: you can create a usable variant (e.g. "0.4mm QUALITY") or a hidden baseline ("*quality*") that will be hidden.
  • sub-variant inherits from variant. If variant is my 0.4mm nozzle quality baseline, I create a 0.25mm nozzle sub-variant that changes only the nozzle size and associated settings. 
  • I do not think any single profile can inherit from more than one parent, but I haven't tested this thoroughly.

This sounds like a lot of work, and it is initially. However, once you get your basic profiles built, it's easy to maintain completely separate families of settings. Unfortunately, if you make changes inside PrusaSlicer, each profile is a full copy (inheritance lines are replaced with the inherited values), so you really have to use an external editor. This may change in the future (hopefully), but it does place the burden of  supporting 3rd party configs on those 3rd parties, so I can understand it, even as I grit my teeth.

It's easier to see all this in action, so I've posted my printer profile bundle here showing how I'm handling Prusa i3 Mk3 variants. I have similar bundles for filament and print settings if anybody's interested. Not well documented yet though!

Note: This has wandered away from OP's question, so perhaps worth another thread. For removable support, I set Print Settings->Support material->Options for support material and raft->Contact Z distance to 0.25mm. PETG is much harder to work with than PLA for removable supports, so my general advice is "avoid the need for supports".

This post was modified 2 months ago by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 15/06/2020 6:14 pm
frank.p8
(@frank-p8)
Trusted Member

Wow!  Thanks bobstro, for a very complete and informative explanation of the 'alice & wonderland' landscape occupied by all the config file inheritance layouts.  I took a look at your 'printer bundle' document, and I'm impressed with the way you have it laid out - very professional looking.  However, I'm just a broke-down engineer with a single MK3S, and all I want to do is change one small setting.  I REALLY REALLY don't want to have to build/edit/debug an entire set of documents just so I can make a change to one setting.

To me, this whole thing looks like another instance of programmers doing programming things for the programmers' convenience, forgetting that their job is to do programming things for the user's convenience. 

Just my $0.02 😉

Frank

 

Posted : 15/06/2020 9:35 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @frank-p8

[...] However, I'm just a broke-down engineer with a single MK3S, and all I want to do is change one small setting.  I REALLY REALLY don't want to have to build/edit/debug an entire set of documents just so I can make a change to one setting.

Heh. I'm no better. I just acquired a 2nd printer but that's it. That did motivate me to delve a bit deeper though. While all of this stuff is a bit arcane, it beats most of the other slicers where you're more-or-less stuck with one giant mess of configs & variations. Creating those base profiles is a bit of work, and updating them definitely a manual process. However, I can easily update a collection of profiles in minutes.

To me, this whole thing looks like another instance of programmers doing programming things for the programmers' convenience, forgetting that their job is to do programming things for the user's convenience. 

A lot of it is historical. Prusa forked the original Slic3r slicer code and is still updating it into a modern system. They've made huge gains in the user interface and features, but a lot is still pretty ugly under the hood. I'm glad they dealt with such "growing pains" issues up front instead of trying to kick the can down the road. At some point, hopefully they'll either catch up and improve management, or someone will come up with a more graceful solution. The good news is that everything is open and documented, so there's always a chance!

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 15/06/2020 10:15 pm
frank.p8
(@frank-p8)
Trusted Member

I meant to edit my reply above to include a reference to Alan Cooper's classic 1995 "About Face", the seminal work on user interfaces.  At the beginning of the book, he describes the typical user's goals:

  • Not looking stupid
  • Not making big mistakes
  • Getting an adequate amount of work done
  • Having fun (or at least not being too bored)

 

and then what most commercially available software is good at:

  • Making the user look stupid
  • Causing the user to make big mistakes
  • Slowing the user so he doesn't get an adequate amount of work done
  • Preventing fun and boring the user

TWENTY-FIVE YEARS LATER, both the user's goals and the attributes of most modern commercial software (including, I'm sorry to say, Prusa Slicer) seems to me to be mostly unchanged 😉

Frank

 

Posted : 15/06/2020 11:24 pm
wdgeek
(@wdgeek)
Eminent Member

I had the same issue with trying to save changes to my specific presets for my Mini, MK3s MMUs and MK3s Single.

I posted my solution under the topic "Can I change default filament from PLA to PETG", https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/prusaslicer/can-i-change-default-filament-from-pla-to-petg/#_ga=2.89362075.1627323249.1592695869-369396424.1581566684

I used the same method to set my supports to .2 for all my printers since I  had the exact same issue as you. I would create supports and forget to change it from .1 to .2 with the result being that the supports were really hard to remove and resulted in very ugly surfaces.

Any setting that doesn't save with your custom config can be modified using the .ini files. (all that I needed to change that is)

Hope this helps.

Posted : 21/06/2020 8:44 pm
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