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New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced  

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gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

https://blog.prusaprinters.org/introducing-sl1s_fastest_desktop_sla_3d_printer_51436/

If Prusa hasn't fixed their supply and support issues I think this isn't much more than a 7x more expensive Mars 2 Pro. Unless there is another SLA printer to come, a slight bump in display area utilization doesn't really make it a "big brother". I expected a 10" or bigger display to compete with the larger SLA machines that are getting pretty common now. If there is no real big brother coming I think Prusa missed the boat and continues to be behind the market.

I am happy that the "big brother" isn't so big after all though as that gives the SL1 an upgrade path to make it competitive (specs) with the current generation of smaller printers. $400 is still pretty steep as you can get other similar printers for significantly less, but it keeps you from having to loose your shirt on getting rid of the SL1...

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Stop SL1 tank leaks with a simple o-ring...
Posted : 16/06/2021 4:09 pm
MikeH
(@mikeh-2)
Trusted Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

Does the reported speed increase have any merit in your eyes?

Posted : 16/06/2021 9:52 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @mikeh-2

Does the reported speed increase have any merit in your eyes?

It depends on what part you are talking about.

If you are talking about it being faster than the SL1, absolutely. Mono screens typically allow for 2-4x faster layer times in general. The video of the tilt speed (no reason to expect they edited it) is also much faster than the tilt we are used to, so layer change times should be significantly improved.

If you are talking about their claim that it is the fastest SLA printer, I am skeptical and expect that games were played there. A Mono screen is not going to be significantly different from another Mono screen, so any benefit there will be nominal and be based on the luck of the LCD you happen to get. The biggest gain for the printer would be from the layer changes, but it feels like the new tilt speed just brings it in line with non-tilting printers rather. So the only other thing I can see helping the speed is the intensity of the UV. Further, the quoted layer times on the product page are right in line with all the other Mono printers I've looked at. It also wouldn't surprise me if they set up the comparison (notice their chart lists no names so you could really find out) to the best advantage of the SL1S (e.g. using a faster resin in it with the layer time dialed in for speed rather than quality, etc..). I don't think ill of Prusa if they did do that, it's just a common marketing scheme when making such claims. 

But then I'm the skeptical sort, so who knows...

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Stop SL1 tank leaks with a simple o-ring...
Posted : 16/06/2021 10:07 pm
3DALHEMIJA
(@3dalhemija)
Estimable Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

I don't think this is "MK3 of resin printers" at this price tag. Their niche market for resin printers should be hobby makers at first place, right? Shame, but it looks like Prusa is trying to compete with Formlabs, instead of EPAX and Phrozen.

I am not expecting 200$ printer from Prusa, but everything above 800$ won't fit their best price/quality ratio brand politics.

I've got last year EPAX X1K (600$, bought on sale 420$), and i personally don't see much difference except tilting mechanism for nearly 4x higher price.

My X1K is: All metal, Factory leveled, 6"Mono screen, PFA film (better than FEP), Rocksolid double steel Z rod reinforced carriage, and yes - Customer support.

Posted : 16/06/2021 11:28 pm
vwyk
 vwyk
(@vwyk)
Active Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

we sl1 owners have not been forsaken!!! appreciate the upgrade path when so many mass market models just release and forget

Posted : 17/06/2021 12:10 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @3dalhemija

I don't think this is "MK3 of resin printers" at this price tag. Their niche market for resin printers should be hobby makers at first place, right? Shame, but it looks like Prusa is trying to compete with Formlabs, instead of EPAX and Phrozen.

I've been heavily involved in a Reddit post about the release and I garnered a response on this very subject from someone from Prusa: https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/o17c8n/prusa_just_announced_a_new_resin_printer_the/h22eoi6

Their response is telling about what I think is a flawed mentality at the company over all (emphasis mine):

We understand why people compare the SL1S SPEED to the cheap chinese toy SLA printers.

That tells me that as a company they look at the majority of the SLA market as beneath them and don't even want to consider them competitors. I get that they don't want to compete in a race to the bottom and I appreciate that, but 4-7x the cost of similarly capable printers with little extra value to show for the extra cost is ridiculous.

To me it appears that Prusa is still stuck in 2017-2018 when FormLabs was really the cheapest widely available option out there. At that time the SL1's price and features were ground breaking. Before they could actually get to market, however, the cheap printers started flooding the market and EPAX came around to target the same prosumer arena that Prusa seems to want to play in. In the same time, however, EPAX is offering more printer options, they've iterated on their printers more, has as good quality, better support, and is doing it all for better prices.

Prusa is kidding themselves if they think they are competitive with the bottom of the professional printers as they offer nothing to minimize downtime when something does go wrong.

I think there is a place for a more expensive printer, but I think they need to realize that Epax is their real competitor right now and adjust accordingly. I think the SL1S should be about $800 to be competitive for what they offer at this time and then need to get a 10+" model out too in the $1200-1500 range. Get their support sorted out and then start offering a separate pro level support contract for faster support and replacements.

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Stop SL1 tank leaks with a simple o-ring...
Posted : 17/06/2021 7:54 pm
Flaviu
(@flaviu)
Estimable Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

I think it is hilarious to see people being mad that the sl1s is so expensive compared to Chinese printers even though someone from Prusa is saying directly that they are trying to compete for potential Formlabs, NextDent etc. costumers. And most people writing in this forum obviously are not that kind of costumers.

Now, one can discuss if they are succeeding or not, but their decision makes sense from a business standpoint.

And I think that is the same direction the FDM printers from Prusa are heading to. Prusas focus is shifting more and more to costumers who have a business.

Posted : 18/06/2021 7:29 am
vwyk
 vwyk
(@vwyk)
Active Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

i appreciate the much heavier components and especially a properly thick ball screw along with the continuous software and firmware support that prusa has. yes, its expensive and it also definitely commands a premium but it also has tangible benefits and features that i dont find from creality, elegoo or anycubic. 

so yes, its a good printer with good firmware and software support and yes its also pretty steep and expensive. i agree that its pretty crazy at usd2k, if it were closer to 1-1.2k then it be an easy recommendation hands down

Posted : 18/06/2021 8:35 am
Lichtjaeger
(@lichtjaeger)
Noble Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @vwyk

i agree that its pretty crazy at usd2k, if it were closer to 1-1.2k then it be an easy recommendation hands down

Let's wait for the price of the kit version. Maybe it will cost the same as the SL1 kit.

Posted : 18/06/2021 8:45 am
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @flaviu

I think it is hilarious to see people being mad that the sl1s is so expensive compared to Chinese printers even though someone from Prusa is saying directly that they are trying to compete for potential Formlabs, NextDent etc. costumers. And most people writing in this forum obviously are not that kind of costumers.

They can slap a ridiculously high price on it and say that is what they are doing, but that doesn't make it true. What those companies offer is support to keep your business running with little downtime and Prusa doesn't (and from my experience, can't) offer that. 

As far as comparing functionality against those pro models, they definitely beat them in some areas and not in others. The cheap printers also beat them in most of the same areas, so what does Prusa offer over the cheap printers to justify their price?

Regardless of who they think they want to compete with, Epax is their main competitor and Epax is kicking the crap out of them. They too play in the "more expensive than the cheap stuff, but cheaper than the pro stuff" market, but they are iterating FAR faster than Prusa, have more options than Prusa, reportedly have roughly the same quality as Prusa, and reportedly have better support from Prusa.

The SL1 is undoubtedly of more value than an original Mars Pro, but not 4x more. Similarly there is nothing apparent to make the SL1S 7x more than a Mars 2 Pro (and now the 3 is coming out with better specs). 

Like it or not, the SL1/S really should be priced in the $500-700 range for what you are getting. If their support was actually competent, the $1200 they charged for the SL1 in kit form was a reasonable (if high) price in my opinion. Not having competent support is what absolutely tanks their value. If Prusa wants to compete with the pro options, what they need to do is build a support service model and offer contracts at various levels.

 

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Stop SL1 tank leaks with a simple o-ring...
Posted : 18/06/2021 4:08 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @lichtjaeger
Posted by: @vwyk

i agree that its pretty crazy at usd2k, if it were closer to 1-1.2k then it be an easy recommendation hands down

Let's wait for the price of the kit version. Maybe it will cost the same as the SL1 kit.

The blog post says they are dropping the kit option. They say they're sales metrics showed the built model was what was selling.

I went with the kit and except getting your fingers into some tight places, it was a really easy build and not worth the extra $300 in my opinion. That said, however, if they built it and tested it then they hopefully would have identified the bad LED array and PSU and I wouldn't have ended up with a non-working printer for 2 months of back and forth with support.

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Stop SL1 tank leaks with a simple o-ring...
Posted : 18/06/2021 4:13 pm
Area51
(@area51)
Prominent Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @lichtjaeger
Posted by: @vwyk

i agree that its pretty crazy at usd2k, if it were closer to 1-1.2k then it be an easy recommendation hands down

Let's wait for the price of the kit version. Maybe it will cost the same as the SL1 kit.

I build my SL1 from Kit version too and I am sad to hear that they dropped the Kit version.

The Kit was fairly easy to build and it is a learning experience that helps understand and better use the printer.

Have a look at my designs on Thingiverse or on PrusaPrinters ;)...
Posted : 19/06/2021 12:30 am
ejberg
(@ejberg)
Trusted Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

I've just ordered the upgrade.

One thing I didn't see mentioned anywhere, is whether a UV calibrator is needed or not?
It was needed for the old color screen replacement, but what about this new one? I don't see a calibrator included in the upgrade kit, and as I've never changed the screen before, I don't have one either.

 

Posted : 19/06/2021 4:40 pm
Lichtjaeger
(@lichtjaeger)
Noble Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @ejberg

I've just ordered the upgrade.

One thing I didn't see mentioned anywhere, is whether a UV calibrator is needed or not?
It was needed for the old color screen replacement, but what about this new one? I don't see a calibrator included in the upgrade kit, and as I've never changed the screen before, I don't have one either.

All SL1S 3D printers have factory-calibrated displays, which makes them easier to replace compared to the SL1, which required an additional calibration once a display was replaced.

Posted : 19/06/2021 5:11 pm
Area51
(@area51)
Prominent Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced
Posted by: @ejberg

I've just ordered the upgrade.

One thing I didn't see mentioned anywhere, is whether a UV calibrator is needed or not?
It was needed for the old color screen replacement, but what about this new one? I don't see a calibrator included in the upgrade kit, and as I've never changed the screen before, I don't have one either.

Have ordered the update kit too...  😀 👍 

From what I understand from the PrusaLive #28 and the SL1S YouTube video each display is measured on factory and the calibration data is stores in the display. This eliminates the need for for calibration when the display is installed - that is why there is no calibration tool.

On SL1 the calibration had to be done on installation.

Have a look at my designs on Thingiverse or on PrusaPrinters ;)...
Posted : 19/06/2021 10:01 pm
ejberg
(@ejberg)
Trusted Member
RE: New Prusa SLA printer (SL1S) + SL1 upgrade path announced

Thanks both of you. I totally missed that part.

 

Posted : 20/06/2021 5:59 am
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