Resin Leaks between tank and frame  

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Michael
(@michael-19)
Eminent Member

If I get a leak I clean it up and then add water to the resin tank to see if it still leaks. If it hasn't leaked after several seconds then I tip out the water and print again, successfully! Half the time it leaks and I replace the FEP. Replacing the FEP fixed the leak every time.

Posted : 31/10/2020 9:38 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @mbarr

If I get a leak I clean it up and then add water to the resin tank to see if it still leaks. If it hasn't leaked after several seconds then I tip out the water and print again, successfully! Half the time it leaks and I replace the FEP. Replacing the FEP fixed the leak every time.

Thanks for the photo, I agree it will look like ours when the FEP is removed.

In my leak tests last night they both held water for a few hours (somewhere between 2 and 3). It wasn't until this morning when I came back that the towels were wet. So a few seconds, unfortunately, isn't definitive.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 31/10/2020 9:59 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member

I wonder if the main reason folks are not seeing this issue more often is due resin being thicker than water. So the seal holds up just enough to not be a problem short term with resin, but not if you use thinner resin due to dying it or the formula is just thinner (something I thought about the Siraya Tech Fast). Makes me wonder how many more folks would see the leaking problem if they attempt to do a multiple hour water test after cleaning and replacing their FEP.

Posted : 31/10/2020 11:45 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

Fair theory. Might also have to do with how they are managing their resin. If they are removing the resin and cleaning the tank every few prints it might now have time to soak through. In my case I left the tank installed and just topped up resin between prints. I only removed it when prints failed and stuck to the FEP.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 31/10/2020 11:56 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gnat

Fair theory. Might also have to do with how they are managing their resin. If they are removing the resin and cleaning the tank every few prints it might now have time to soak through. In my case I left the tank installed and just topped up resin between prints. I only removed it when prints failed and stuck to the FEP.

That might be the case as I do the same as you. I may try using silicon this weekend to put a bead down on the raised edge, then use a flat smooth surface to press it down and cut off the excess with a razor.

Posted : 01/11/2020 1:24 am
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @ryan-c29
Posted by: @gnat

Fair theory. Might also have to do with how they are managing their resin. If they are removing the resin and cleaning the tank every few prints it might now have time to soak through. In my case I left the tank installed and just topped up resin between prints. I only removed it when prints failed and stuck to the FEP.

That might be the case as I do the same as you. I may try using silicon this weekend to put a bead down on the raised edge, then use a flat smooth surface to press it down and cut off the excess with a razor.

Was going to go that route, but Live Chat is escalating my issue to SL1 support (isn't it just great we plunked down all this money and support that you can get hold of can't do much to help us?). So I don't want to give them any cause for complaint yet.

My plan was to try both a very small bead on the lip and then install a fresh lip and also try a small be ad on the inside of the tank after the FEP was installed. I do still need to see if I can confirm that silicone isn't going to negatively react with the FEP or resin though (doubt it, but I'd rather not ruin a tank full of resin or have it all fall out the next time I remove the tank).

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 01/11/2020 1:55 am
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gnat

Was going to go that route, but Live Chat is escalating my issue to SL1 support (isn't it just great we plunked down all this money and support that you can get hold of can't do much to help us?). So I don't want to give them any cause for complaint yet.

My plan was to try both a very small bead on the lip and then install a fresh lip and also try a small be ad on the inside of the tank after the FEP was installed. I do still need to see if I can confirm that silicone isn't going to negatively react with the FEP or resin though (doubt it, but I'd rather not ruin a tank full of resin or have it all fall out the next time I remove the tank).

ya, my plan was to do a water test, then a resin test, before I even think of putting this on the printer. I'm curious to know what Live Chat says.

Posted : 01/11/2020 2:03 am
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Noble Member

I suspect one could probably purchase a very fine oilstone or some extra fine wet sandpaper and lap the bottom surface of the resin tank (on a surface plate or float glass) for a perfectly level and smooth sealing surface. 

Note you'd definitely need to round over the edges after that in order to avoid them cutting the film during installation. 

 

Posted : 02/11/2020 2:45 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

@vintagepc

Yeah I've considered polishing as an option as it should work. Not everyone will be able to do that (I would need to find a machine shop) and on a machine that has been marketed as a premium grade option we shouldn't have to.

These tanks re useless to me in their current state so I don't mind potentially damaging them to create something that works. I just need to know what Prusa is going to do first (e.g. are they going to want me to send these two back).

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 02/11/2020 2:52 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

Heard back from support this morning and they want to replace one of my tanks (I responded back that I showed them 2 that are failing in the same manner) and they asked me if I installed the FEP correctly.

Interestingly they asked me if I followed https://help.prusa3d.com/en/guide/4-electronics-lid_11824#13568 which differs from https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/fep-film-replacement_1963 (circular vs crisscross pattern). It is the later that I followed since that is what comes up when searching the KB for the process.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 03/11/2020 3:09 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gnat

Heard back from support this morning and they want to replace one of my tanks (I responded back that I showed them 2 that are failing in the same manner) and they asked me if I installed the FEP correctly.

Interestingly they asked me if I followed https://help.prusa3d.com/en/guide/4-electronics-lid_11824#13568 which differs from https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/fep-film-replacement_1963 (circular vs crisscross pattern). It is the later that I followed since that is what comes up when searching the KB for the process.

They asked me the same thing, though didn't offer to replace the tank yet. I responded that I have gone through 8? FEPs so far and have done both the circular and crisscross pattern with zero success. In addition I linked them to this thread with our findings. So far I have not heard back from them after that. This is quite frustrating. Tempted to throw the damn thing out a high window and go buy a Form3 instead.

Posted : 03/11/2020 3:26 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

@ryan-c29

Yeah I feel you. I threatened to have mine show up on @vintagepc's door step if he irritates me🤣

I have a friend with a Form 3 (and a 2 before that). FormLabs does customer support right if you get the pro service, but you pay through the nose both up front and via the tanks and resin.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 03/11/2020 3:42 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gnat

@ryan-c29

Yeah I feel you. I threatened to have mine show up on @vintagepc's door step if he irritates me🤣

I have a friend with a Form 3 (and a 2 before that). FormLabs does customer support right if you get the pro service, but you pay through the nose both up front and via the tanks and resin.

Honestly, I feel that's better than having a mess to clean up and potentially broken printer due to tank leaks.

Posted : 03/11/2020 3:48 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @ryan-c29
Posted by: @gnat

@ryan-c29

Yeah I feel you. I threatened to have mine show up on @vintagepc's door step if he irritates me🤣

I have a friend with a Form 3 (and a 2 before that). FormLabs does customer support right if you get the pro service, but you pay through the nose both up front and via the tanks and resin.

Honestly, I feel that's better than having a mess to clean up and potentially broken printer due to tank leaks.

My friend has had a couple tanks fail, but only one leak onto the printer. They overnighted him a replacement printer with a hazmat return kit so he didn't even have to clean up the old one first. They've also sent him a bunch of free tanks and resin in response to "minor" issues. I don't know if the freebies have covered the service cost, but as I recall the freebies more than cover the cost of support on his 2 (assuming he would have bought all that stuff anyway).

I don't expect Prusa to be at that level, but given that they've positioned the SL1 as a premium printer I do expect better (faster and less what feels like guessing) than I've seen so far. I still expect/hope to be happy with it when I get beyond these initial problems.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 03/11/2020 4:01 pm
MikeH
(@mikeh-3)
Eminent Member

@gnat

I don't have an SL1 yet (and may never if this is a common problem) but I wonder if a solid silicone gasket might help with the sealing?  Silicone sheet is available here in pretty thin sheets, as low as 0.005" (0.12 mm) and it should be fairly easy to laser cut it to the correct geometry, including screw holes.  Another possibility might be flexible filament gaskets.  Any thoughts?

Posted : 03/11/2020 7:41 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Noble Member
Posted by: @gnat

@ryan-c29

Yeah I feel you. I threatened to have mine show up on @vintagepc's door step if he irritates me🤣

I have a friend with a Form 3 (and a 2 before that). FormLabs does customer support right if you get the pro service, but you pay through the nose both up front and via the tanks and resin.

Challenge accepted....? 😀 Granted, it's not my $1200 on the line 😛

 

Posted : 03/11/2020 8:18 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @michaelhenry

@gnat

I don't have an SL1 yet (and may never if this is a common problem) but I wonder if a solid silicone gasket might help with the sealing?  Silicone sheet is available here in pretty thin sheets, as low as 0.005" (0.12 mm) and it should be fairly easy to laser cut it to the correct geometry, including screw holes.  Another possibility might be flexible filament gaskets.  Any thoughts?

The silicone gasket is certainly an idea, I should reach out to a keyboard guy I know that does custom laser cutting and see if he can whip up something.

Posted : 03/11/2020 8:23 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Noble Member

I suspect even an appropriately sized o-ring that fits just around the inner lip of the tank could work. The only gotcha is it has to be thin enough that you can still install the frame and screws without them protruding. 

Posted : 03/11/2020 8:28 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

@michaelhenry

I didn't know you could get them that thin! @vintagepc is correct that there will be a balance between thick enough to act as a seal and too thick to cause issues.

If you make a seal on the lip itself, you could impact the ability of the tank to sit securely on the platform.

If you seal under the retainer then having the screw heads projecting will be the issue with the result being the FEP not properly touching the LCD. I don't know if screws with shorter heads could be sourced to give a bit more room to play with.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 03/11/2020 8:43 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gnat

@michaelhenry

I didn't know you could get them that thin! @vintagepc is correct that there will be a balance between thick enough to act as a seal and too thick to cause issues.

If you make a seal on the lip itself, you could impact the ability of the tank to sit securely on the platform.

If you seal under the retainer then having the screw heads projecting will be the issue with the result being the FEP not properly touching the LCD. I don't know if screws with shorter heads could be sourced to give a bit more room to play with.

You can certainly source them, looking at some via mcmaster now just for this reason. I've already played around quite a lot with thicker laser cut frame ideas and know there basically is 0 clearance on the screws, so any gasket means you need shallower head screws.

Current screw head height is 2.2mm width is 7.4mm

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Xulkal
Posted : 03/11/2020 8:51 pm
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