Bondtech BMG + Mosquito Hotend + MMU2S  

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MartijnValkier
(@mvalkier)
Active Member

I have a MMU2S collecting dust since last summer, I took a few weeks to find out that this setup (bog standard I3 MK3S) with a MMU2S wasn't going to work. I since then removed the MMU2S and went on and bought a Mosaic Palette 2 Pro (which I later upgraded to the S version).

In the mean time I exchanged my E3D hotend and extruder for a Bondtech BMG extruder with a Slice engineering Mosquito hotend and this turned out to be a great upgrade for my Prusa printer. The last couple of days I was wondering if hooking up the MMU2S to the Prusa would automagically make things work a lot better because of the hotend upgrade. If I remember correctly the E3D heatbreak is in a lot of cases the reason why there are so much load/unload failures with the I3 and MMU2S setup. When I manually unload filament in my current setup the filament ends aren't the blobby and the diameter of the filament tips is very consistent. This blobbyness prevents the MMU2S from correctly loading filament during a filament change and thus requiring user intervention and thus making a MMU2S a rather useless addition.

But with the Mosquito hotend I'm not experiencing any blobbyness at all, at least not in the way I experienced this with an E3D hotend. Is it worth it to spend time hooking up my MMU2S? Or will this just end up being a never ending crusade in fighting bad filament tips?

Posted : 31/12/2019 8:47 am
MartijnValkier
(@mvalkier)
Active Member

Never mind, I gave it a go yesterday and gave up after installing add ons to the BMG extruder. Installing and tuning the ir sensor took ages with no usable result. I'm sure the parts that make up the MMU2S can be used in some other home-made project ... Too bad, super idea but poorly executed.

Posted : 01/01/2020 4:32 pm
joeri.s
(@joeri-s)
Active Member

Hi,

I am running with the same setup with succes. Used this one for the ir sensor https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3565326

...
Posted : 05/01/2020 4:12 pm
salman.a3
(@salman-a3)
New Member
Posted by: @joeri-s

Hi,

I am running with the same setup with succes. Used this one for the ir sensor https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3565326

Hey,

Can you please share what parts did you print from there? There are a lot of parts and I am a little confused.

Many thanks.

Posted : 08/05/2020 12:22 am
james.s49
(@james-s49)
New Member
Posted by: @salman-a3
Posted by: @joeri-s

Hi,

I am running with the same setup with succes. Used this one for the ir sensor https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3565326

Hey,

Can you please share what parts did you print from there? There are a lot of parts and I am a little confused.

Many thanks.

I wanted to post this here since I spent the last few days fighting with this new setup and could never find the right information in one place.

I am using the 2nd generation Mosquito (non-magnum) hotend with the dark grey heatsink with larger opening that works better with MMU2s. If you have the original generation Mosquito I have seen others say that you can drill out the heatsink or you can purchase an updated one from Slice (see the visual reference here: https://www.sliceengineering.com/collections/replacement-parts/products/replacement-heat-sink?variant=31836630614088 ).

Also, the Bondtech extruder upgrade I’m using is the one specifically for Mosquito hotends ( https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/prusa-i3-mk3s-mosquito-extruder-upgrade/ ), but the third party site that I ordered from had old stock so it came with the incorrect length of PTFE tube (18.7mm vs 19.7mm) so I had to cut a longer piece at 19.7mm. I used some Capricorn XS that I had and it works great thanks to it’s tighter fit. Depending on the revision of your Mosquito and Bondtech you may or may not have the correct length of PTFE in your upgrade. See the note in step 14 here: https://support.bondtech.se/Guide/02.+Prusa+i3+MK2.5S+-+MK3S+-+Mosquito+Upgrade+Kit+-+Installation/49?lang=en

Here are the steps I followed:

  1. Print a compatible X-Carriage (and possibly X-axis). Here are options (choose one)
    1. Bondtech has their own X-Carriage parts on their site under resources. I think this works with the default Prusa X-axis, but I didn’t use this to verify: https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/prusa-i3-mk3s-mosquito-extruder-upgrade/  
    2. The Bear X-Axis and the appropriate X-carriage. I chose this as the bear X-axis is extremely easy to calibrate belt tightness: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4362586 and https://github.com/gregsaun/bear_extruder_and_x_axis/blob/master/optional_parts/bondtech_x_carriage/README.md
  2. Print the parts for the Bondtech Prusa MMU2S MK3S Adaptation ( https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3565326/ ):
    1. SensorcoverLatch.stl
    2. Topplate_M5x0.8_MK3S_MK2.5S_V1.1.STL OR Topplate_M6x1.0_MK3S_MK2.5s_V1.1.STL OR Topplate_M10x1.5_MK3S_MK2.5S_V1.1.STL
    3. One of the following:
      • Sensortab.stl AND Drill_Template.stl
      • OR Bondtech_Hinge_Tab.stl (I prefer this one as the sensortab seemed flimsier to me)
  3. Make sure your MMU2s is updated to the latest firmware provided by Prusa. Flash to the latest if needed
  4. Follow Bondtech’s Installation Guides 00 and 01 to flash the appropriate firmware and disassemble/repurpose screws/nuts from the existing extruder: https://support.bondtech.se/c/MK2.5S_and_MK3S_Mosquito
    1. Note: in Guide 01, Step 2 is not valid. That PTFE cutting fixture is not the correct length for the Mosquito.
  5. Follow Bondtech’s Installation Guide 02 skipping steps 4-6 and 32-33. On step 28 you can omit the steel ball, but you must place the holder in there to make a straight filament path. Be sure to double check your PTFE tube length as mentioned in step 14 as my piece was too short as noted above.
    1. If you are using the Bear X-axis and carriage you can stop after step 34 and follow chapters 3 and 4 in their guide: https://guides.bear-lab.com/Guide/2.+X+axis/39
  6. Follow the directions in this remix detailing how to install/calibrate the MMU2s adaptation parts ( https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4269149 ).
    1. Make sure to test your filament sensor fully. I initially had it placed where it was 0 when no filament was inserted and 1 when filament was inserted and I thought I was good, but if I pushed the filament further up and down in the bondtech gears it would fluctuate between a 0 and 1. When properly calibrated I could insert the filament and trigger a 1 that would stay triggered until I removed the filament.
  7. Calibrate your printer. I followed the steps in the Bear calibration guide (minus flashing back and forth between the Bear and Prusa firmwares since we’re using the Bondtech firmware)
  8. Calibrate the MMU2s Bowden length. This is very important as the length from the MMU2s to the bondtech gears with the BMG Mosquito hotend is shorter than the original Prusa hotend. This is the piece I didn’t know (and spent two days troubleshooting) because I never had the original MMU2 where these steps were mandatory: https://help.prusa3d.com/en/guide/service-menu-individual-filament-calibration_86376 .

After following all of those steps I am back to having a working MMU2s with my new Mosquito hotend/BMG extruder. I tried to include as much detail as I can remember from the last week of working on this upgrade while also linking/citing my sources so if anything is unclear or if you have questions let me know and I can try to answer them.

Posted : 29/05/2020 3:58 pm
darren-2 liked
muhammad.taufiq
(@muhammad-taufiq)
New Member

@james-s49

Hi,

I'm very thankful with your post here. I have mk3s working fine and I just bought Mosquito Magnum, Bondtech Extruder, and MMU2s. As you said I didn't find any full reference about what I'm about trying to do in one place except your post here. But surfing the forums and comments I found that it seems very difficult to sync the combination (MK3s + Bondtech BMG + Mosquito + MMU2s), so many user are seems very frustrate to find  worked ingredient for the combination.

After success with your upgrade,

- What do you think about the result you get from this mod?

- How hard it would be to do this upgrade with your step guidance above?

- Any particular advise before I start to strip off my original extruder?

 

thx

Posted : 20/09/2020 12:11 pm
james.s49
(@james-s49)
New Member
Posted by: @muhammad-taufiq

@james-s49

Hi,

I'm very thankful with your post here. I have mk3s working fine and I just bought Mosquito Magnum, Bondtech Extruder, and MMU2s. As you said I didn't find any full reference about what I'm about trying to do in one place except your post here. But surfing the forums and comments I found that it seems very difficult to sync the combination (MK3s + Bondtech BMG + Mosquito + MMU2s), so many user are seems very frustrate to find  worked ingredient for the combination.

After success with your upgrade,

- What do you think about the result you get from this mod?

- How hard it would be to do this upgrade with your step guidance above?

- Any particular advise before I start to strip off my original extruder?

 

thx

  1. In my opinion it is a steep price for a minor improvement. The two main improvements I’ve seen is a reduction in moire effect (weirds shimmering on the external walls of prints) and the ease of nozzle swaps. I have a  lot of different nozzles, but rarely swapped them out on the stock extruder because it was a minor hassle to heat it up each time and I always felt like I was going to break a thermistor wire when trying to hold the heat block in place. With the mosquito hotend it is so much easier to just quickly swap a nozzle while it’s cold with zero worry of breaking anything.
  2. The steps themselves are pretty simple (if you actually built your MK3s from a kit). I think I’ve outlined all of the necessary steps to get it working, but there’s always a chance that you may run into something different than I did. That’s by far the most difficult part, trying to find troubleshooting info online. When I performed my upgrade it took me a couple weeks of trying new things, reading various forums, and gathering info to finally work out the major kinks.
  3. My main advice would be:
    1. If you’re happy with your current setup it’s probably best to stick with what you have.
    2. If you run into any issues it makes it much harder to research online. You’ll be a subset of a subset of users. There may be more users using this combination that have posted helpful hints online, but when I started out there wasn’t.
    3. If neither of those scare you away and you have the money and time to invest in the combo then it’s doable. Just realize the value to performance improvement is very slim. Everyone online tries to sell the BMG and the mosquito as the holy grail, but honestly the improvement to print quality (at least to me) was minor. Maybe I’m just not as picky as other users because I never had many complaints about the print quality of the stock extruder. The ability to quick swap nozzles is the best improvement in my opinion. I also really prefer the bear x-carriage as well. Makes getting the correct belt tension much easier.
    4. MAKE SURE YOU PRINT ALL THE NECESSARY PARTS BEFORE DISASSEMBLY. I accidentally printed an incompatible extruder carriage part when I started my upgrade, but didn’t realize it until I disassembled the hotend. I had to reassemble the stock hotend, print the correct part, and then disassemble again. If you print the right combinations of parts that I listed in my original write up you should be fine.

Hopefully I didn’t make it sound too difficult or scary. If you’re like me and just like tinkering and trying new tech then you’ll probably enjoy it. If you just want things to work I’d advise against it since it adds extra layers of complexity to your troubleshooting.

Posted : 20/09/2020 1:26 pm
muhammad.taufiq
(@muhammad-taufiq)
New Member

@james-s49

Hi James,

Thank You for the share.

Duly noted.  I have more clear pictures now. 

Yes, though I'm pretty happy with the current output, I think I'm still gonna make a shot. As I know now that these combination are workable, I will enjoy the process.

Again, thanks for the detail.

 

Cheers

Posted : 20/09/2020 1:52 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @mvalkier

Never mind, I gave it a go yesterday and gave up after installing add ons to the BMG extruder. Installing and tuning the ir sensor took ages with no usable result. I'm sure the parts that make up the MMU2S can be used in some other home-made project ... Too bad, super idea but poorly executed.

This seems odd to me. I had my MMU working great prior to moving to the Bondtech BMG (e3d hotend), but getting the idler tension right so the IR sensor worked correctly was always a PITA and often had the idler tension too high.

The mod for the BMG, however, separates the idler tension from the IR tuning and makes the whole process so much easier. One thing that makes the IR tuning much better regardless of the extruder configuration is the LED mod for the IR sensor. Having the instant visual feedback makes things so much easier.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 29/09/2020 3:09 pm
muhammad.taufiq
(@muhammad-taufiq)
New Member

Hi,

i was complete to upgrade my mk3s to MMU2s with bondtech extruder with mosquito magnum. I was successfully to print many things with single filament setting, but up until now haven’t successfully to print a multicolor object.

I always have issue with filament loading to extruder. The filament always failed to load and extrude. Some on the first color/filament, and sometimes when the color change process... and it’s end up with blinking led on the MMU (Red, yelow-red, all red) or sometimes “MMU need attention” on the screen.

Any idea how to solve this kind of issue? 
or maybe any checking point that i need to check for any missed..?

thx

Posted : 29/09/2020 3:25 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Prominent Member

@muhammad-taufiq

More information about why it is failing and what it is actually doing is needed to provide useful feedback to help you.

Since you say that single filament prints are working fine that suggests that the FINDA is probably OK and the IR sensor is probably close enough. 

Pictures of your complete setup, info about any other mods, pictures/descriptions of your tips after unload, etc.. would all be helpful here.

MMU tips and troubleshooting...
Posted : 29/09/2020 3:42 pm
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