What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?
 
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What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?  

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MikiCab
(@mikicab)
Estimable Member
What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

What is the mentality of us who are still waiting for their MMU 2.0 knowing it has major issues hang in there and not cancel our orders? There negative posts far outweigh the positive posts. Why are you not cancelling our order or shipping it back after a few weeks of struggling. Just wondering? Mine is still on back order since Sept 9 and I have been debating canceling and waiting for better outcomes. I have worked in Production, Field Service and NPD (New Product Development) and I can tell you two things. 1: is all FSE's (Field Service Engineers) have a little McGyver in them and think they can fix anything (That is me). 2: When a product has this many issues the "FAIL" is in the design. You cannot repair quality into a faulty design.
Personally I think it is a Beta design that got released and probably not production worthy. I would recommend Prusa go to an outside contractor to do a design review and that might fix it but could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more.

So why are you not cancelling or sending the MMU 2.0 back if your having issues?

Thanks

Posted : 29/01/2019 8:57 pm
kieran.s4
(@kieran-s4)
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

mine shipped today, and didn't cancel because the i3 mk3 started off rather spotty too and now it's a rock solid printer. optimism. it'll work. eventually.

Posted : 29/01/2019 9:17 pm
flynn.m
(@flynn-m)
New Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

Mine works good.

Posted : 29/01/2019 9:37 pm
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

The majority of people with them never post - meaning they have no issues that were not solved with either a search of the forum or speaking to the online tech support. Very few people have posted that they cannot print, compared to the numbers sold and shipped.

That is why I am not canceling my order.

Posted : 29/01/2019 10:29 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

Because I got mine early November 2018 and my shelf is already full of MMU stuff. Did a project this month where I used my MMU and powder coated sheet to make a really cool product. Will be published soon.
Yes, there are couple traps for inexperienced users which might drive you crazy but personally I don't see any design flaws in this product. It just need some polish (sometimes literally in couple places) and the slicer/firmware can do better job. But at the end my printer get the job done.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram...
Posted : 29/01/2019 10:44 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

there are more users than we have members on here this is a concentrated experience set, formed from mostly folk who have had problems, it should be no surprise that there is some negativity...

but we don't have the figures to say it's a bad product...

I had MMU v1
it was initially crap...

I got help here, my experience improved, but it was still poor...
I pre ordered a mk3...
news of the upgrade for MMU1, to have filament sensors, was released,
I pre ordered the upgrade

my mk3 arrived, apart from the filament sensors, and crash detection, it was good, the removable bed was stickered but it was a good experience
I spoke to support, they sent me a new filament sensor... no improvement, firmware was changed, filament sensor did not improve...

I thought, if the MMUv1 upgrade uses the same sensors, there will be issues, so I put my mmuv1 upgrade on hold...

meanwhile I escallated my mmuv1 complaint in writing addressed to Joe Prusa...things were quiet for a while, then I was sent a replacement mmuv1 multiplexor with new cooling tubes, and new festo's... the MMUv1 is now good...

news of the mmuv1 upgrade being cancelled was broadcast, with notification that we could have the order changes for an MMU2 upgrade... (which wouldn't work with my prusa mk2... so I ordered a mk2.5 upgrade

time moved on, and on and on, the MMU2 was released for mk3 owners but we were on the back burner... eventually I got my mk2.5 upgrade, and later my mmuv1 to mmuv2 upgrade...

as my mk2 printer was working well with my mmuv1, I wasn't inclined to take it to pieces, so I built the MMUv2 with two non prusa motors for filament feed, and idler cassette rotator...

I picked the bones out of other people's experiences and made a number of changes, and at the moment my mmuv2 seems to be behaving well...

I don't do mega colour prints, I think my tallest has been 'Dolly' the two colour cloned sheep

most of my colour prints are max 2mm colour change zone... which is what I bought the mmu for... it's doing the business, so I am happy...

anyone can ask prusa to put their mmu order on hold, if they wish, and then take the upgrade when the perceived performance improves, or request a refund and cancellation of the order if it doesn't improve.

cancellation, after waiting, and re ordering later, is likely to take longer all round...

If you're losing faith, then maybe cancellation is right for you,

however if you have invested time waiting so far, why waste that investment, take a pause, but leave your order on hold,

my thoughts, for consideration, final decision must be yours
regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 29/01/2019 10:59 pm
MikiCab
(@mikicab)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

If you're losing faith, then maybe cancellation is right for you,

however if you have invested time waiting so far, why waste that investment, take a pause, but leave your order on hold,

my thoughts, for consideration, final decision must be yours
regards Joan

I just wanted to see what other people were thinking. I have worked in Manufacturing, Service and NPD (New Product Development) and I see how sausage is made and how much rat is in the sausage. It all comes down to do you believe the company will make it right? Or are they just there to make money and sell you another product.
I have a good feeling about Prusa. The 3 times I had issue with the MK3 they stood behind it and shipped me parts at their expense. They stood behind the Texture Spring Sheet (At least I got mine)
The MMU 1 (which I did not buy because it could not do TPU) seems to have been a Beta that got released when it should not have.
As far as the MMU 2.0 the design may not be fixable in it's current form. Maybe it is time to hire an outside engineering firm to review the design?
Thanks for reading and commenting on my post.

Posted : 30/01/2019 5:55 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

i do print TPU with my mmu1 admittedly single colour...

I too think Prusa will come good!

they have a hard task though...

a while ago, someone was claiming they stole his idea, re bed levelling...

he had an idea, didn't publish it, didn't copyright it and then claimed PR had stolen his intellectual property...

similarly, people are saying Zerobeast mmu is better than PR MMU, and that PR should copy it... perhaps they hold back in case of copyright claims

Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 30/01/2019 10:43 am
colin.j.haynes@gmail.com
(@colin-j-haynesgmail-com)
Active Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

Just to add to the replies, I have an MMU2 that I built up and installed a week back - worked first time and hasn't failed since.

I followed the instructions to the letter including all the comments - I appreciate I'm in the minority but it works fine for me.

Colin.

Posted : 04/02/2019 8:34 pm
Peter L
(@peter-l)
Honorable Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?


I appreciate I'm in the minority but it works fine for me.

Don't assume you're in the minority of MMU owners. Just in the minority of people who post in this forum.

Posted : 10/02/2019 5:24 pm
3Delight
(@3delight)
Moderator
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

From visiting lots of websites, forums, etc. there are a lot of people out there for whom the MMU2 worked first time every time, others who found that it takes a little calibration work then is fine.

Posted : 10/02/2019 7:28 pm
Martin_au
(@martin_au)
Reputable Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?


What is the mentality of us who are still waiting for their MMU 2.0 knowing it has major issues hang in there and not cancel our orders? There negative posts far outweigh the positive posts. Why are you not cancelling our order or shipping it back after a few weeks of struggling. Just wondering? Mine is still on back order since Sept 9 and I have been debating canceling and waiting for better outcomes. I have worked in Production, Field Service and NPD (New Product Development) and I can tell you two things. 1: is all FSE's (Field Service Engineers) have a little McGyver in them and think they can fix anything (That is me). 2: When a product has this many issues the "FAIL" is in the design. You cannot repair quality into a faulty design.
Personally I think it is a Beta design that got released and probably not production worthy. I would recommend Prusa go to an outside contractor to do a design review and that might fix it but could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more.

So why are you not cancelling or sending the MMU 2.0 back if your having issues?

Thanks

Critiquing a design can be a very entertaining process, especially with an open source design. You start with an analysis of the design and determine the flaws with the design that leads to the problems encountered. Then, once the problem has been identified, you and others can work through the design, and devise a better solution. An analysis like this will also help identify if it's a single aspect of the design that has shows itself through many different problems users encounter, or whether there are multiple aspects of the design that are problematic.

However, throwing yours hands up in the air and yelling "problems = bad design!!!" doesn't achieve anything.

There is one commonly problem with the MMU that cause fails in prints – failed loads. There are also a few other, more minor problems, that are mentioned.
What are the causes of failed loads?
1) Incorrect tip forming causing strings that mess up the Pinda - this is almost always a settings problem and has little to do with the hardware design.
2) Failed loads that don't reach the extruder. This latter problem is commonplace, but the solution is to get the filament sensor at the extruder working. This is being worked on, and is already available in non-Prusa firmware builds.

When you take those problems away, what are you left with? Not too much.

Anyway, if you want to know why I decided to get the MMU2, I chose it because when you consider the design aspects of getting 5 filaments to one extruder, the MMU2 is, IMO, actually a very good design. It's not there yet, but I don't see any particular aspect of the design that will prevent it becoming a robust, reliable filament feeder.

Posted : 11/02/2019 8:55 am
Jerry Siegel
(@jerry-siegel)
Active Member
Re: What makes us Hang in there and not cancel our orders knowing the MMU 2.0 still has major issue?

Mine worked great from day 1. i3 MK3 MMU 2.0

...
Posted : 12/02/2019 12:08 am
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