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Review: Dragon Hotend  

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Wolfgang Weber
(@wolfgang-weber)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Hi. I am considering buying this trianglelab hotend for my mk3s.

While this seems to be a drop-in replacement for the e3dv6, I was wondering 2 things about the mounting:

 

1. Its only preasure mounted on the top groove mount, right? So it might rotate, when i do a one-handed nozzle swap? So, i need a rigid mount if i want to easily and often change nozzles?

 

2. Does anyone know if someone has done a rigid mounting for the prusa mk3s? I only found this.

This is 4mm longer than the default e3dv6 or dragon+groove. Am i mistaken, that removing the groove all together would make the hotend and therefore the filament path much shorter? Would that not be much more reliable when printing with flex? And also with small nozzle size prints, since the pressure is more direct?

 

 

A bit off topic but you might help:

I am kind of hoping this hotend will fix some things. While I am only printing for little over 1 year (83d 13h machine time) I had constant problems getting my prints reliable. Since October I can’t get prints longer than 2d working reliable and not over 40-45mm/s (0,4mm nozzle 0,15 layer). I often get extrusion problems regardless of how hot/cold, how clean extruder or idler door, how aligned, changed PTFE tube. Disassembled hotend 30-40 times and complete print head 8 times, changes heatbreak, nozze and of course did loooots of trial and error testing with different settings in the slicer (mainly retractions and extrusions factor, line/contour overlap percentage e.g). Also reprinted idler door and checked idler axis e.g

My current first guess is that the whole hotend is not seated/mounted correctly or wiggled/dented the plastic at the groove mount. So that the filament path is ever so slightly offset. I also need lots more tension than I would like on the idler screw and the filament does not flow smoothly downwards the nozzle but rather exits sideways/ curls up. Faster speeds 40mm/s + result in clicking extruder after a while.

My second guess is that the nozzle and heatbreak are not center with each other. I checked that there are flush and tight. Filament built-up in the inner threading of the heater block? Cleaned that multiple times, but maybe inside the thread grooves where i can't see it?

I spend more than 60h debugging this exact problem alone and this is the kind of a replace everything and hopefully improve everything fix.

 

Am I under a false premise, that a new/this hotend:

- Has less heat creep and would therefore be more reliable for longer prints? And better for ASA/ABS?

- Has a shorter filament path if mounted with rigid mounting somehow? Better flex prints?

- If I design/print a new mount some other problems might go way? (print quality from the original parts were very poor btw. I guess they had a big backlog then. Waited Black Friday to early Jan.)

- Nozzle change would be easier? I quite often change nozzles. Also mid print when I want to have a finer top layer or text on top (custom gcode)

- Is more versatile with materials. (so far I have printed with (pla,petg,flex, abs, asa, pc) (and failed with that spool of ultem I borrowed ^^)

 

I guess that is not how you fix a printer, but would that be a really terrible idea? ^^

Am I just hopeful and delusional this would fix anything? I would really like to print big 5 day prints and insane small prints with my 0,15mm nozzle again.

Right now its more or less just working with 0,4-0,6er nozzle and 0,15-0,2mm layer height at below 40mm/s and not for much longer than 6-8h without at least 1 preemptive manuell filament change.

This post was modified 12 months ago by Wolfgang Weber
Posted : 07/02/2021 1:34 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I have the same question as @wolfgang-weber's question 1 and despite looking through this whole thread I'm not sure what the answer is. 

I've found myself changing nozzles frequently, sometimes several times a day, and while I've become quite good at it, the idea of a one-handed nozzle swap with the Dragon hotend sounds too good to pass up on. So I'll have a Phaetus standard flow hotend come in this week. 

But as @wolfgang-weber suggested it sounds as if it should rotate inside the mount. Or does the adaptor that comes with it, keep it from rotating? I also found this modification of the R6 extruder motor plate, and I'm wondering if I need it? Unlike the one Wolfgang linked to, this one seems to be a good fit.

 
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:43 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@fuchsr

I would like to see that made of aluminum.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 15/02/2021 10:55 pm
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Swapped on a Phaetus Dragon today. I jammed up the V6 so bad that it required pulling it out. All my fault, preheated PLA and forgot it, and timed out, 3 times in a row! I had the Dragon sitting on the bench for another project, and figured, why not?

Everything went together without a hitch until I went to adjust the Z. The nozzle is flush with the bottom of the cooling shroud, and the existing height of the PINDA. Adjusting the PINDA is easy, but the shroud will be dragging on the print.

Anyone experience this? and have a solution!?

Posted : 16/02/2021 5:08 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I printed a new shroud in ABS, doesn't need a fan to print! The old shroud was a little twisted, so it isn't quite as bad with the new one. But still about twice as close as before.

Posted : 16/02/2021 8:39 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

My Dragon arrived a day early. I printed this modification of the R6 extruder motor plate, but it took a lot of sanding to make the adapter fit into the plate. Anyway, once that was done, turned out that the adapter that the Dragon comes with was screwed in to the heat sink pretty good with two small screws and apparently Loctite. I managed to get one screw out but stripped the second 😒 So for now it looks like I'm going to use groove mount with the stock extruder motor plate and I guess tape to try to keep the Dragon from spinning. 

Posted : 16/02/2021 10:31 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@fuchsr

Loctite must be new.  Mine came appart easily.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/02/2021 2:40 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Yeah, from what I had read that was my assumption. But the one that came out definitively had Loctite on it. 

Posted : 17/02/2021 2:45 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

My Phaetus unit didn't seem to have any thread locker on it, but the sockets heads were pretty crumby. One of the groove mount heads is rounded out. 

Posted : 17/02/2021 2:53 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@hackmonkey

That is too bad.  I will have to exmaine mine.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/02/2021 2:56 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

It would have been fine, had curiosity not got me, and I just left it alone. But that is no fun. I did notice several listings now saying "don't take them apart". 

Posted : 17/02/2021 2:59 am
mrstoned
(@mrstoned)
Estimable Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

One thing to try is to use threadpenetrating rustloosening oil, similar to wd40.

There are also a special type of screwheads that are designed for removal of stripped screws, like tri-, hex-, torx tips in hardend toolsteel.

Tiny screws are terrible to drill out 🙁

Tevo Nereus.
Prusa Mini+ kit (4.3.4). BondTech extruder....
Posted : 17/02/2021 3:35 am
jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@chmeredith

I just finished testing the Dragon Standard Flow hot end with the MMU2 printing 5 colors with 30-60second filament changes.  Test ran 6 dhour without any interruptions or interventions necessary.  See:

https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/57716-triangle-labs-dragon-drop-in-hot-end

 

 

...
Posted : 22/02/2021 7:09 pm
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I have noticed a marked reduction in heat creep after swapping to the Dragon! My extruder stepper was getting so hot that I couldn't touch it for more than a second or two, and was starting to occasionally skip steps. I had to install a heat sink to deal with it. That is no longer the case with the Dragon. The stepper still gets quite hot on longer prints, but nothing like it was. Wish I had recorded the temps before.

Posted : 22/02/2021 7:49 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@hackmonkey

I often wonder why some have heat creep and others do not.  I had it for a couple weeks, but none since.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 22/02/2021 8:17 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@cwbullet

Agreed. I’ve been printing happily for months, not one sign of heat creep. I do have a couple of Bondtech heat sinks in my drawer but why fix what ain’t broken?

Posted : 22/02/2021 8:21 pm
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Craziest thing was it was only a handful of filaments that really seemed to have a noticeable problem, pronounced skipping. Slapping on the heat sink fixed it though. But don't need it now! 👍 

Posted : 22/02/2021 8:36 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@hackmonkey

Not sure I’m totally following you here. “Install a heat sink”? How could you possibly be printing without a heat sink?!?

Posted : 22/02/2021 8:53 pm
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

An additional heat sink was added directly to cool the stepper. 

This post was modified 11 months ago 2 times by HackMonkey
Posted : 22/02/2021 9:05 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@hackmonkey

I installed a couple of those.  I am not sure how much of a difference it makes.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 22/02/2021 9:15 pm
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