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Review: Dragon Hotend  

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fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Oh, onto the extruder motor, I see… I know some people have added fans. Still sounds like some underlying, undetected issue that causes the motor to run so hot, but then again maybe 48h+ jobs do that (I think my longest print so far was about 3o hours).

Posted : 22/02/2021 9:47 pm
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Hello, did anyone managed to address the stringing issue with PLA? i have no issues at all with ABS, but PLA+ from esun is giving me a very fine but dense stringing... i have played with the temps and retraction and made usre that the filaent is dry, but same thing.. for some reason the dragon keeps giving me a lot of stringing when i print miniatures.... 

Posted : 24/02/2021 1:02 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@gabrielcr78

I have not had stringing. The only string i have is with a PTFE lined V6 knockoff.

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 24/02/2021 1:12 am
jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@gabrielcr78

No problem with Inland PLA or PTEG.  Getting the right temperature is key.  I use 3mm for the retract length and wipe on retraction.

...
Posted : 24/02/2021 1:15 am
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@jmillerfo and @cwbullet

Thanks a lot! may i ask which params you guys using? temp for PLA+, retraction speed and if you use Z-hope or Z-lift? i have tried retraction 3mm... no success with 195°C

 

BTW, this one i got from trianglelab about 6 months ago. they confirmed this is the V2.

 

This post was modified 11 months ago 2 times by gabrielcr78
Posted : 24/02/2021 1:19 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I run almost all PLA, including Inland, at 215-220C.

I think all my extruder settings are the stock PrusaSlicer settings at the moment. 
When I installed the MMU, I figured I would start with a clean slate, and haven't had a need to change back.

I probably could dial the temps back, the copper block and nozzle should be more efficient. But Everything is still printing just fine at the higher temps, so I haven't bothered.

Stringing on PLA hasn't been an issue. 

Posted : 24/02/2021 1:29 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I am using the stock prusa and Prusament settings.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 24/02/2021 1:32 am
jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

PLA 1st layer at 205°C; 2nd and subsequent 195°C.

...
Posted : 24/02/2021 2:51 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@gabrielcr78

Is this a Prusa Mini, or Prusa Mk3xx series printer
3mm retraction is excessive for a mk3xx printer. it's likely to lead to heat creep and blockages!

 

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 24/02/2021 10:47 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Topic starter answered:
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@joantabb

Especially with the stock heatbreak!

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 24/02/2021 10:48 am
jmillerfo
(@jmillerfo)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@joantabb

Its a MK2.5S.  3mm does seem like a lot but it virtually eliminates stringing.  I agree that this would cause heat creep on the E3Dv6.  The Dragon hot end handles this without problems.  In the end moving to the dragon eliminated stringing, eliminated heat creep, and forms a near perfect filament end with is essential for flawless MMU2 operation.

...
Posted : 24/02/2021 12:58 pm
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

this one is not a prusa, i have a prusa i3, but the Dragon is installed on a new Voron 2.4, direct extruder. since i was already using Prusa slicer i decided to try it with the voron....

also, when i said i had tried 3mm retraction i was trying to say i have tried "up to" 3mm, which i agree for a direct extruder is a bit high... but even 3 mm didnt fix it...

 

i'm starting to suspect tha this filament has some issues.. Alas i'm out of PLA, only ABS left, so i will order another roll of PLA and test.. and then report back.

thanks all!!

Posted : 24/02/2021 1:10 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

Before I installed my Dragon, I had one roll of white PLA, that was stringing like crazy,  Increasing the retraction didn't help! 

you can see some of the strings across the red infill, above. 

So I tried lowering the print temperature... 

this filament needed to be printed at 170C...   BUT the Prusa Printer (Mk3S in my case) has a minimum extrusion temperature set in firmware (At 170C) so if my extruder dipped below 170c (as it does when trying to maintain a working temperature of 170C, the extruder motor, would simply stop working 
to resolve this 
I added a gcode in the Custom Gcode, Start Gcode 
M302 S140 ; Enable Low Temperature Extrusion   
this code Temporarily reset the low temperature extrusion limit to 140C  
enabling me to print at the lower temperature without stringing 

I hope this helps you address your stringing
regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 24/02/2021 1:43 pm
Photogad
(@photogad)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I tried both Dragon and Mosquito hot-end, both standard flow versions.

I can tell you that the dragon was about 18.3 mm3/s volumetric flow for me, the mosquito is clocking in at 17.2 mm3/s volumetric flow. So the dragon does have a little bit better flow rate! This was measured with PLA @ 220c. Of course flow rates can differ based on material and temperature.

However, I ditched the dragon for the mosquito because with the mosquito I can have true one-handed nozzle changes, and the hot end itself seems more rugged and better designed (I like how the cables come out the back instead of the side, and how easy it is to add or remove the thermistor and heater cartridge).

This post was modified 11 months ago by Photogad
Posted : 25/02/2021 6:39 pm
Artur5 liked
Photogad
(@photogad)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend
Posted by: @joantabb

Before I installed my Dragon, I had one roll of white PLA, that was stringing like crazy,  Increasing the retraction didn't help! 

you can see some of the strings across the red infill, above. 

So I tried lowering the print temperature... 

this filament needed to be printed at 170C...   BUT the Prusa Printer (Mk3S in my case) has a minimum extrusion temperature set in firmware (At 170C) so if my extruder dipped below 170c (as it does when trying to maintain a working temperature of 170C, the extruder motor, would simply stop working 
to resolve this 
I added a gcode in the Custom Gcode, Start Gcode 
M302 S140 ; Enable Low Temperature Extrusion   
this code Temporarily reset the low temperature extrusion limit to 140C  
enabling me to print at the lower temperature without stringing 

I hope this helps you address your stringing
regards Joan

When I upgraded to the Dragon, I immediately noticed all of my PLA started stringing a lot worse. I spent HOURS running all sorts of retraction calibration tests, fiddling with slicer settings, nothing ever helped. I switched to the Mosquito hot-end, and the problem remains, though it's slightly better than the Dragon hot end. Likewise, I added the stock E3D hot end back in just for giggles, and the stringing went away.

I have come to the realization that I think these higher-flow hot ends just sometimes produce more stringing because of the way they are designed. I am not an engineer or an expert, so I cannot tell you why.

I have since switched to a Slice Bridgemaster nozzle which I think is some sort of copper alloy and has better thermal conduction, and my stringing was drastically reduced.

Posted : 25/02/2021 6:44 pm
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

@photogad

thanks! at least i am not the only one seeing this issue.. that's actually a great tip.. i am using a steel nozzle.. i will test with a copper nozzle and see if that provides any improvement 🙂 thanks a lot!

Posted : 25/02/2021 9:27 pm
Photogad
(@photogad)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend
Posted by: @gabrielcr78

@photogad

thanks! at least i am not the only one seeing this issue.. that's actually a great tip.. i am using a steel nozzle.. i will test with a copper nozzle and see if that provides any improvement 🙂 thanks a lot!

The Bridgemaster nozzle is still not perfect, but it did reduce my stringing quite a lot.  The red print is with the brass e3d nozzle, the pink print is with the copper bridgemaster.  Yes, two different filaments, but you can trust me that the pink stringed just as bad on the brass nozzle that the red did, I just don't have a photo saved.

 

The purple print is an example of the worst my stringing was with the dragon hot end/mosquito hot end and brass nozzle. For whatever reason, that print was the worst.

 

Posted : 25/02/2021 9:40 pm
Photogad
(@photogad)
Eminent Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

By the way, with PETG on Mosquito, I get 0 stringing at all. Bizarre. Here's three PETG parts I made - no cleanup was done on them.

 

Posted : 25/02/2021 9:44 pm
gabrielcr78
(@gabrielcr78)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

nice!!!! so, i'm confused.. is the bridgemaster a different material thanregular copper? also.. would the Bridgemaster work on the dragon hotend?

 

i've been thinking if i should switch to the mosquito.. but not sure if i want to invest 200$ right now on it... have you tried the bridgemaster on the dragon or is it not possible?

 

thaqnks a lot again @photogad !

This post was modified 11 months ago by gabrielcr78
Posted : 25/02/2021 10:07 pm
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey)
Active Member
RE: Review: Dragon Hotend

I am guessing that maybe not all "Dragon" hot ends are the same. The Phaetus version I have has a very nicely played and polished copper heat block and nozzle. Copper has very different thermal properties than aluminum. I have seen a couple Dragon varieties that appear to use aluminum blocks and brass nozzles.

This standard Phaetus version I have does not string at all with PLA, PETG, or ABS. 

Posted : 26/02/2021 2:18 am
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