Notifications
Clear all

MK3S Mosquito integration  

Page 8 / 20
  RSS
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Yes; I agree, best to stay on track,

The layer cooling fan is the primary accuser for heat loss during extrusion.  As for the heat block fan it also has a significant - (-/+) to the problem though less than equal to the layer cooling fan.  This was noted during a 3rd iteration of testing (turn OFF layer cooling mid print). Testing resulted in immediate glassy layers with 4 layers total prior to complete failure of the print.  The 4th iteration was to print nylon without layer cooling to note results.  Will post pictures later this morning.

Posted : 25/06/2019 12:44 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

To note the thermal properties of metals thought this could be a useful reference: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html

 

Posted : 25/06/2019 1:00 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

To reference Brass here: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-exchanger-material-thermal-conductivities-d_1488.html

Posted : 25/06/2019 1:08 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Yep. Vanadium steel nozzle is probably similar to tungsten steel. That gives us a nozzle at best, half the thermal conductivity of brass. 

I finally got full glassy fusion with nozzle turned all the way up to 265C and the reduced nozzle cooling BNCrab nozzle. Fan was running 60/100%. Overhangs of the treefrog legs are pretty ugly rough indicating there isn't enough parts cooling for those "short" layers. I'm repeating with the BNRHD nozzle and same settings to re-check the nozzle change.

265C with PETG to get full melt is pretty dang hot. It's amazing how much easier a brass nozzle is to make work well. At least the nozzle change is easy. Brass let me get some productive printing accomplished with the mosquito.

This post was modified 3 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 25/06/2019 1:30 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

It would appear abrasive material nozzles are poor heat conductors in general..

Final testing:

Posted : 25/06/2019 4:05 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Tree Frog High resolution file:

 

Attachment removed
Posted : 25/06/2019 4:16 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I can't wait for my tungsten carbide nozzle to arrive. Tungsten carbide is not to be confused with tunsgsten steel which would give us the same thermal conduction problem as the vanadium nozzle. I ordered from Dyzedesign. Theirs is a tungsten carbide insert in a steel fitting. 

There is also a chinese company that sells a "tungsten" one piece nozzle, but their website states is super confusing in that they say is tungsten steel and later tungsten carbide. That left me not trusting which it was.

Tungsten carbide should be a winner with abrasion resistance + thermal conductivity. It will be a lot easier to dial in for full fusion and preserving geometry.

 

Posted : 25/06/2019 4:30 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

My curiosity for the Dyzedesign 2 part solution is peaked.  Any results with the "BSCrab_fan_shroud_narrowed_downward"?  In general this would seem to be the best solution. for any hotend.  As this is being typed actively printing the BNBSX .  I have another idea for the Vanadium nozzle that just may work.  Have materials on order...

Posted : 25/06/2019 8:54 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

265C print on BNRHD for comparison against 26gC BSCrab downward is completed on my print bed.

The 26gC BSCrab downward print looked very well fused and was pretty strong. I don't think it will do more than about 50 degrees overhang or "short" layers as well as a brass nozzle. 

I hesitate to make conclusions about the nozzle successs/failure until I can compare identical print settings across both nozzles.

Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't examine them until tonight.

This post was modified 3 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 25/06/2019 9:20 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

265C I meant

Posted : 25/06/2019 9:27 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: evan38109
Posted by: jmone

I got all the bits arriving at the end of next week to build a Std and/or Magnum + my Tungsten Nozzle.  I have to say my current setup is printing very very well, so I'm now a bit perplexed if I should swap to the Mosquitio ( 🙂 just kidding, have to try it out) and if I should go Magnum or Std up front.  What do you recommend? 

Also I'd like to avoid any issues from compiling the FW, would it be possible to share a know good pre-built one for the Mosquito?

Thanks

Nathan 

No firmware changes needed for the Mosquito or the BNBSX. The BNBSX puts the tip of the Mosquito at the same position as the stock V6 hotend, so you should be good to go!

As far as standard Mosquito or Magnum, that totally depends on what you want out of it. Want high flow with large nozzles to print big parts quickly? Go with the Magnum. Don't want that? That's why they made the standard. The smaller melt zone of the standard should be better for fine details, but theory is only a rough picture of reality until it's tested.

From my humble experience so far: The worst I can say about the standard is that, even with un-optimized versions of the BNBSX, it feels fairly equivalent to the V6 when using brass or plated-copper nozzles. (I never tried steel nozzles with the V6, because of awkward nozzle changes.) I've even been printing some of the same GCode with it, and I don't immediately notice significant differences. Take a V6, make nozzle changes easier, take away off-the-shelf silicone socks, and there ya go. You've got yourself a standard Mosquito. Want more flow than that? Go with the Magnum. 

Can optimized airflow make that better? We'll find out soon!

(That said: I'm still relatively new to this hobby, and have only a week or so experience with the Mosquito. Your mileage may vary.)

Good luck!

Don't I need a firmware change to run the new Thermister?  If so, does anyone have a precomplied "known" good one for the MK3s/MMU2s they can share?

Thanks

Nathan

Posted : 26/06/2019 5:04 am
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: jmone
Don't I need a firmware change to run the new Thermister?  If so, does anyone have a precomplied "known" good one for the MK3s/MMU2s they can share?

Thanks

Nathan

Ooo, yes you do, and I apologise for missing that detail. I was focusing only on the hotend itself and extruder. I used an identical thermistor and heater to stock and didn't need firmware changes. The Slice thermistor will, if you decide to go that route. If you really want to avoid firmware changes, the stock thermistor seems to work fine for me.

Good luck!

Posted : 26/06/2019 5:20 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
Finally got a good print out of Slice vanadium nozzle

Finally cracked it. Bunnies finally can get fully fused, glassy PETG prints with good geometry from a Mosquito with vanadium nozzle. It required a few steps to get here.

  • Air plenum redesigned to raise plenum floor and protect mosquito heat block from excess cooling.
  • Mosquito covered with silicone sock to reduce heat loss
  • Increased print temperature 20C to achieve adequate filament melt.
  • Redesigned fan shroud to reduce cooling in vicinity of nozzle and compensate by boosting overall cooling zone with more airflow

New BS4RHD fan shroud preserves print geometry despite working with vanadium nozzle and heat block dialed up 20C. That high temp ruined overhang geometry with all previous shrouds of the bunny's mosquito kit. Bunnies took a hint from the generic air dump Prusa fan shroud and added a large, rearward nozzle. This increases cooling airflow enough to cool down printed parts and also reduced flow near the nozzle. Result is adequate parts cooling without overly chilling nozzle tip.

A more thermally conductive nozzle would be easier to use, but bunny scientists have breakthrough making vanadium nozzle usable on the BNBSX.

BS4RHD shrouds are plated in Mosquito Compatibility Kit and replace the BNRHD shroud.

This post was modified 3 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 26/06/2019 10:11 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Evan, your airflow streamers mostly showed me how little total air is moving around. Not going to scare off any birds with those tassels.

BTW BSCrab downward shroud results were excellent fusion, but overhangs worse than a BNBRHD. It might be worth doing a middle rear nozzle on a BSCrab and comparing it against BS4RHD. 

Just happy that we finally have a working combination.

This post was modified 3 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 26/06/2019 10:28 am
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy-2,

Good looking frogs...  Nice to see a reasonable solution.  I'll see if I can shoe horn a BSCrab onto the Slice R5 Prusa MK3S body (adaptor).  After a bit more heat creep testing on the Mosquito it surprised me that there wasn't any.  For this reason the positive 20C ∆ doesn't bother me.  I was concerned that the filament would adversely soften in the filament path.  Nice!  One nozzle for all material types makes me giddy.  Moving up to engineering materials such as carbon fiber PETG, Nylon, ABS, Etc.. requires no fan..  

Have one more PLA/PETG test to perform....  More to come....

Love that shroud!

Posted : 26/06/2019 1:10 pm
Sembazuru
(@sembazuru)
Prominent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: guy.k2

[...]

bunny scientists have breakthrough making vanadium nozzle usable on the BNBSX.

Time to give the bunnies an old phone book to sit on. They deserve a raise. ;-D

See my (limited) designs on:
PrusaPrinters - https://www.prusaprinters.org/social/1448-sembazuru/prints
Thingiverse - https://www.thingiverse.com/Sembazuru/designs...
Posted : 26/06/2019 3:53 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy-k2,

So far our print test results are exhibiting the same behavior.  Question, what thermistor are you using?

Posted : 26/06/2019 5:02 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thermistor and heater cartridge (40W) are both E3D units from Prusa

 

Posted : 26/06/2019 5:53 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

On larger parts and StrongHero PETG, I'm needing 280C to get adequate melt. That's getting awfully close to thermistor max and it is only PETG. I can foresee polycarbonate is going to be a problem with a standard thermistor + vanadium nozzle. 

I need that tungsten carbide nozzle shipped.

Posted : 26/06/2019 6:01 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

FYI - I've e-mailed EV3D about my Tungsten nozzle to see if it is Tungsten or Tungsten Carbide.  Also my Nozzle-X in the std Prusa Hot end is producing perfect prints for me.  I've had to up the Temp for PETG (etc) by 10c using the stock profiles in Prusa Slicer but not for PLA.

Posted : 26/06/2019 11:10 pm
Page 8 / 20
Share: