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holmes4
(@holmes4)
Estimable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Yes, I used PETG (AmazonBasics) and the vanadium nozzle.

Interestingly, I have been struggling with a new spool of Atomic Cherry Red PLA that required me to boost the print temp to 225, far more than Atomic says I should need. Other filaments (PLA and PETG) haven’t given me that hassle.

Posted : 23/06/2019 11:15 am
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thanks for thinking of little ol' me!

I've been following eagerly while my printer chugs along in the background. I'm catching up on a few projects I promised my wife that got stuck in the backlog while I've been tinkering the last few weeks. The printer should be free after work tomorrow and these are first in line! (Unless insomnia strikes tonight...)

I confess that I like the extra clearance around the heat block and the raised plenum in the latest edition. I know its fine to have it close to the heat block, but there's still that part of my brain that feels queasy about it. Just a little extra space helps. 😉

 

Posted : 23/06/2019 3:42 pm
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: jmone

I got all the bits arriving at the end of next week to build a Std and/or Magnum + my Tungsten Nozzle.  I have to say my current setup is printing very very well, so I'm now a bit perplexed if I should swap to the Mosquitio ( 🙂 just kidding, have to try it out) and if I should go Magnum or Std up front.  What do you recommend? 

Also I'd like to avoid any issues from compiling the FW, would it be possible to share a know good pre-built one for the Mosquito?

Thanks

Nathan 

No firmware changes needed for the Mosquito or the BNBSX. The BNBSX puts the tip of the Mosquito at the same position as the stock V6 hotend, so you should be good to go!

As far as standard Mosquito or Magnum, that totally depends on what you want out of it. Want high flow with large nozzles to print big parts quickly? Go with the Magnum. Don't want that? That's why they made the standard. The smaller melt zone of the standard should be better for fine details, but theory is only a rough picture of reality until it's tested.

From my humble experience so far: The worst I can say about the standard is that, even with un-optimized versions of the BNBSX, it feels fairly equivalent to the V6 when using brass or plated-copper nozzles. (I never tried steel nozzles with the V6, because of awkward nozzle changes.) I've even been printing some of the same GCode with it, and I don't immediately notice significant differences. Take a V6, make nozzle changes easier, take away off-the-shelf silicone socks, and there ya go. You've got yourself a standard Mosquito. Want more flow than that? Go with the Magnum. 

Can optimized airflow make that better? We'll find out soon!

(That said: I'm still relatively new to this hobby, and have only a week or so experience with the Mosquito. Your mileage may vary.)

Good luck!

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by evan38109
Posted : 23/06/2019 4:04 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Evan, the extruder body and E3D pane got a minor update this morning to accommodate a Sunon 2510 fan on the mosquito. No need to reprint extruder body or E3D pane unless you plan to use that instead of the Noctua or Slice fan. The Sunon 2510 is thicker than the Slice and needed some extra space carved out of the plenum.

Posted : 23/06/2019 4:21 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I have the new hot fins printed, but am stuck at work and cannot give them a spin yet.

Evan, you're going to really love swapping out both hot fins with the BNBSX extruder STILL mounted. It was pretty sweet being able to do that.

  • Unload filament
  • Raise Z enough to use driver under extruder but not so hight that you block the motor plate screws.
  • Turn off printer after cooled down
  • Release idler tension screw
  • Remove motor plate (two cables unplug and four bolts)
  • Release bottom zip ties holding hot end cables, but don't undo the entire bundle.
  • Remove front two and bottom rear screw from noctua fan. Leave top rear screw in place. That saves you the hassle of rerouting the fan and motor cable later.
  • Remove fan shroud and print fan screws. Let fan hang out of way on right side.
  • Remove hot end cover (two screws at top of cover)
  • Remove two m2 screws holding each hot end.
  • Reverse process to reassemble.

Just remember to use a filament to push optical armature out of way when sliding motor plate back on. I also tend to forget the idler tension screw.

I didn't even need to redo live-Z. The mounting system puts the tip right back into position. (So long as you don't loose the PINDA, but you don't need to undo the PINDA to change hot fins.

This post was modified 3 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 23/06/2019 4:36 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Wow guy-k2!  Your animal....

Desided to step back, apply some of the logic popping up in the forum, and reboot.  Still printing through to obtain identical test results exhibited by others.  Was a pain to remove the thermal paste from the threads but done. At the 4th iteration now, will post pics when completed.

Posted : 23/06/2019 10:25 pm
Sembazuru
(@sembazuru)
Prominent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hey, guys. Watch those fans you are trying to specify. Those two Sunon fan links at Mouser don't have any availability. One is "Non-Stocked, Call for Quote" and the other is out of stock with the lifecycle marked as obsolete.

Luckily the suggested replacement for the obsoleted fan looks nearly identical in a quick scan of the specs. Here is the replacement: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/?qs=EU6FO9ffTweJgjSa3wsRgA%3D%3D But, Mouser doesn't have any stock of the replacement yet, and won't have any available to ship until August.

See my (limited) designs on:
PrusaPrinters - https://www.prusaprinters.org/social/1448-sembazuru/prints
Thingiverse - https://www.thingiverse.com/Sembazuru/designs...
Posted : 23/06/2019 11:02 pm
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: guy.k2

I have the new hot fins printed, but am stuck at work and cannot give them a spin yet.

Evan, you're going to really love swapping out both hot fins with the BNBSX extruder STILL mounted. It was pretty sweet being able to do that.

...

Oh yeah, the serviceability and hackability of the BNBSX is one of it's killer features. This is the second time I've swapped out the hot fins, I've swapped between three or four different extruder steppers, even swapping the V6 for the Mosquito...I've never had to unmount the extruder carriage. It's absolutely awesome. I still remember replacing the stock stepper with a Moons 1.8° as one of my first upgrades and it was...less easy.

...and speaking of swapping hot fins, today didn't go at all as planned. The good news: these just got mounted:

I printed out a new hotend cover as well, since I had the version right before the Mosquito anti-rotation fins. Printed in Priline polycarbonate, or as I'm starting to think of it, "polycarbonate with training wheels." It's not going to have the heat resistance of PC-MAX, but I find the Priline somewhere between PC-Max and PETG in ease of printing. I'll likely re-print the hotfins in PC-Max once I finish the enclosure one of these days. (Besides, there's always a new version, right? 😉)

I have a treefrog printing right now, and I'll try to post photos tonight for comparison.

P.S. - I do love the new "Evan hook" on the fan, too!

Posted : 24/06/2019 2:32 am
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: Sembazuru

Hey, guys. Watch those fans you are trying to specify. Those two Sunon fan links at Mouser don't have any availability. One is "Non-Stocked, Call for Quote" and the other is out of stock with the lifecycle marked as obsolete.

Luckily the suggested replacement for the obsoleted fan looks nearly identical in a quick scan of the specs. Here is the replacement: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/?qs=EU6FO9ffTweJgjSa3wsRgA%3D%3D But, Mouser doesn't have any stock of the replacement yet, and won't have any available to ship until August.

Hmm...are you sure that's a drop-in replacement? According to the datasheet, the "-A99" at the end of the manufacturer part number is the "function code." Some quick Googling brings me to this Sunon catalog, page 9. The "-G99" from the previous fan seems to be what indicates it has the third wire found on Prusa fans. Would the (presumably) 2-wire fan need some additional adjustments to work with the stock Prusa electronics?

You're spot on with the availability, though. I can't find those fans anywhere!

This post was modified 3 years ago by evan38109
Posted : 24/06/2019 2:45 am
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

...and one treefrog, coming up!

I printed with the same gcode @guy-k2 posted a few days ago, same steel nozzle, same roll of PETG. I photographed it next to the treefrog I printed a couple days ago before the hotfin and fan swap for comparison. The first one is on the left, the one that just finished is on the right:

Looking at the underside, I suspect I have something off in the new fan. Some of the filament from the fan's roof may have collapsed back inside there or whatnot -- I still don't have bridging settings perfect for that filament. I'll have to take it apart tomorrow to see.

I hope this helps!

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by evan38109
Posted : 24/06/2019 3:49 am
Sembazuru
(@sembazuru)
Prominent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: evan38109
Posted by: Sembazuru

Hey, guys. Watch those fans you are trying to specify. Those two Sunon fan links at Mouser don't have any availability. One is "Non-Stocked, Call for Quote" and the other is out of stock with the lifecycle marked as obsolete.

Luckily the suggested replacement for the obsoleted fan looks nearly identical in a quick scan of the specs. Here is the replacement: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/?qs=EU6FO9ffTweJgjSa3wsRgA%3D%3D But, Mouser doesn't have any stock of the replacement yet, and won't have any available to ship until August.

Hmm...are you sure that's a drop-in replacement? According to the datasheet, the "-A99" at the end of the manufacturer part number is the "function code." Some quick Googling brings me to this Sunon catalog, page 9. The "-G99" from the previous fan is what indicates it has the third wire found on Prusa fans. Would the (presumably) 2-wire fan need some additional adjustments to work with the stock Prusa electronics?

You're spot on with the availability, though. I can't find those fans anywhere! Anyone got another suitable replacement?

To be honest, I didn't look that far into it. On the obsolete part's page on Mouser there was a link to compare to the replacement part. That's all I looked at, and as I said I just gave it a quick glance.

See my (limited) designs on:
PrusaPrinters - https://www.prusaprinters.org/social/1448-sembazuru/prints
Thingiverse - https://www.thingiverse.com/Sembazuru/designs...
Posted : 24/06/2019 4:09 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

There is a way mentioned somewhere in the forum on how to use the 24 volt slice fan, but I can't find the message.

Evan, I think the new frog has....

1. Still not fully fused, glassy looking - not enough heat delivery by vanadium nozzle

2. Not quite enough print part cooling. Could you please check the new fan shroud nozzle tips for bad overhangs? The geometry can be really messed up with dangling overhangs there. Also, this is the fan shroud that tilts down 2 degrees (which makes it mount level). The mounting tab and hook on current B04 is slightly tilted to compensate for old ones propensity to tilt the nozzle tips up once you tighten mounting screw.

I just completed a 240/245C tree frog with usual Amazon Basics PETG black. B04 revision hot fins and much more complete silicon sock coverage. The larger B04 clearance allows silicone sock to wrap over top of mosquito heat block. Basically, the mosquito is pretty maximally protected from air flow. Can't do much more to help it retain heat. 

Yes it is definitely better fusion, but still not glassy like it should be. The Slice vanadium nozzle is just not achieving enough melt even with all the protection I can build around it. You can clearly see the first few layers are well fused, but then it doesn't quite do the job. I'm pretty disappointed with the Vanadium nozzle. Yes, I can get it to print PETG if I crank it up 15C, but the plan was to use it for carbon fiber polycarb. How high or slow would I need to go for that if PETG needs 260C?

That tungsten carbide nozzle with brass-like heat conduction is seeming like a good idea.

I'll try again vanadium steel with the Magnum configuration once that arrives. With the standard mosquito, I am underwhelmed with the vanadium steel nozzle. 

 

Posted : 24/06/2019 5:32 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

To salvage my Mosquito high temperature materials plan, two things are on order.

1. Magnum heat break and insulator - these should extend the melt zone to compensate for the low thermal conductivity vanadium steel nozzle.

2. Tungsten CARBIDE nozzle ( https://dyzedesign.com/shop/nozzles/tungsten-carbide-nozzle/) to regain the filament melt performance of a high conductance nozzle.

I think a standard Mosquito + vanadium steel (or any other low conductance nozzle like nozzle-X) is a marginal setup. Even with maximal thermal isolation, quite a fair amount of temperature boost is needed to adequately melt PETG. 

Not all is bad. Bunnies have improved the Mosquito kit as a consequence of attempting to get the Slice vanadium nozzle to perform. 

Here is result with 255 1st / 260C thereafter. It is usable, but dang I routinely get better results with E3DV6 + brass nozzle at 245C!

Posted : 24/06/2019 8:03 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
BScyc Fan Shroud

Evan, bunnies concocted a new fan shroud that specifically does not aim its main airflow at the Mosquito nozzle. This will let us test whether reducing direct nozzle air of RHD style shroud is a factor in making the hardened steel nozzles extra poor performers. You will find it in on Thingiverse as "BS Cyclone Fan Shroud (experimental)"

I am really curious if it makes a difference on your tree frogs with nozzle-x.

I'm in midst of long print. So haven't had opportunity to test against the Slice vanadium steel yet.

Posted : 24/06/2019 4:09 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

The BS Cylcone had some thin wall slicing issues.

New experimental BSCrab fan shroud is up on Thingiverse. This one avoids thin wall problem

Posted : 24/06/2019 10:51 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy-k2,

Just received 3DXTech CarbonX Carbon Fiber Nylon to print the BNBSX configured to the Mosquito.  Looks like it will take a bit of time to build out ("real" job gets in the way).  Still owe my test prints..  There done, just have yet to post.

Any recommendations for printing the BNBSX with 3DXTech CarbonX Carbon Fiber Nylon?  Print a frog?  Plan on printing (testing) with standard Mosquito and the Vanadium Nozzle.  Thank you for taking the time to sort this out.  The thread has been educational to say the least.....

Posted : 24/06/2019 10:53 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Don't have any real advice to give because they are still battling with getting good PETG performance with the Mosquito and vanadium steel nozzle.

Tree frog is a nice, challenging piece that tests layer adhesion, surface finish, overhang capability, and small cross section printing. If you can print a solid, pretty tree frog, you have the machine dialed in.

Bunnies never expected to be designing fan shrouds. This is all a side effect of supporting the Mosquito.

This post was modified 3 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 24/06/2019 11:01 pm
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

The "BSCrab" fan shroud is printing right now. 😊 

While I removed the old shroud to examine it, I noticed that I could feel the airflow out of both the right side and bottom, and figured it might be useful to see what was happening. Here's my first (far from perfect) attempt at visualizing the airflow using some party ribbons taped in strategic places:

bnbsx-mosquito-b04-airflow video

Nozzle is heated to get the Noctua fan going, but build plate turned off to avoid convection. Ribbon placed on the left x-end is to confirm minimal drafts in the room itself.

If it's useful: yay! If not: I learned we have a secret stash of party favors in a closet, so it's still a win.

(And if anyone is noticing: yes, I have some Misumi MR2 pulleys on there along with Gates GT3 belts. Parts number GPA16MR2060-K-P5 and GPA56MR2060-A-P5, and the larger 9mm GPA16MR2090-K-P5 on X & Y. The 56-tooth pulley ONLY fits because I'm using a 35mm stepper. In case anyone is looking for the next big thing: I noticed no meaningful difference with them on the extruder, and maybe only tiny differences on the X & Y. I'll probably switch back to the bicolor pulley I printed because it makes me happy when I look at it in a way that the big metal monstrosity there does not. As always: I'm a noob, YMMV.)

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by evan38109
Posted : 25/06/2019 12:36 am
evan38109
(@evan38109)
Eminent Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: guy.k2

Evan, bunnies concocted a new fan shroud that specifically does not aim its main airflow at the Mosquito nozzle. This will let us test whether reducing direct nozzle air of RHD style shroud is a factor in making the hardened steel nozzles extra poor performers. You will find it in on Thingiverse as "BS Cyclone Fan Shroud (experimental)"

I am really curious if it makes a difference on your tree frogs with nozzle-x.

...

Sure! Here's another treefrog, this time with the "experimental_BSCrab_fan_shroud" posted a few hours ago. Otherwise, same Nozzle-X, PETG, and your gcode:

Posted : 25/06/2019 4:27 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thanks. I see it is not melting well enough to be glassy and some problems with the overhangs. 

I tried one with BSCrab at 245C and got similar results. Bumped up to 265 and it was about 75% glassy, nearly same as with the BNRHD.

Just for kicks, repeated at 265C but with half fan rate -> fully glassy, but overhangs were rough, but didn't completely fall apart like it did with BNRHD. So, the fan shroud redesign has some effect.

I have to change my mind about the print fan not being a major factor if half fan got it fully glassy at 265. I think it was not as important when the noctua airflow wasn't as well controlled, but now that cooling from above is controlled, the bottom is playing are more significant role.

I'm printing a BSCrab with more downward pointed nozzle tips and preferentially less flow of the halves closest to nozzle tip. We'll see if we can hit a better balance between nozzle tip heat loss and adequate parts cooling. We don't have much thermal margin with the Vanadium steel nozzle.

Posted : 25/06/2019 6:43 am
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