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jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I'd be interested in what you think on the EV3DM TC Nozzle (as this is the one I have) vs Spool3D one.  Here is what the Frog looks like with Nylon/Carbon Fibre.  Printed very very well on the EV3DM with 0 clean up

 

- Full Res DL: https://jmone.org/jmonenextcloud/index.php/s/qntCMzHraeRToZp

Posted : 07/07/2019 9:05 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I have not had a chance to run the EV3DM nozzle yet, but clearly it is working well on your machine to get that kind of result. I'll do a test of it in about a day. The 2 mm longer than Spool3D's nozzle does leave more exposed to print cooling air, but I will bet TC's high thermal conductivity makes that less of an issue. Only other worry is the tip will be in lower position relative to cooling fan shroud.

How well does it keep clean? This is after over 3 jobs totaling over 24 hours running black PETG. No cleaning of nozzle tip was done between print jobs nor after the last one (save but pulling off oozed filament). The DIY silicone sock has not been cleaned in over a week. The printer has been running both PETG and polycarb nearly continuously.

The TC nozzle is a lot cleaner than my brass nozzles would look after 24 hours PETG printing. Usually, the E3D brass is totally coated with a bubble of PETG by the end of 24 hours.

I'd also comment that my DIY Permatex silicone sock keeps itself pretty clean.

Did I clean it before starting the next 19 hour job?

Nope. Took this pict and pressed print.

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by Bunny Science
Posted : 07/07/2019 11:05 am
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I've been running "naked" so far.  PETG (or other filaments) is only an issue with the PRUSA Std prime line where (for some reason) it extrudes a massive home blob with the nozzle not moving then on the 2nd pass drags the nozzle back though it.  This makes a mess.  

Posted : 07/07/2019 11:26 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I gave up on Prusa's prime line and won't ever go back to using theirs.

I use a modification of Bobstro's prime line. The change I made was to have it deposited from a greater height. Makes removal from print plate easier and no messy blob at start. Here is the prime line portion of my startup gcode.

G1 Z0.7 ; move slightly above bed for easy clean intro line
G1 X60.0 E9.0 F1000.0 ; intro line
G1 X100.0 E12.5 F1000.0 ; intro line
G1 E-0.8 F2100; bobstro anti-stringing retract and wipe
G1 X99.0 E0 F1000.0 ; -1mm intro line @ 0.00
G1 X110.0 E0 F1000.0 ; +10mm intro line @ 0.00
G1 Z0 ;lower head back to normal Z after intro line
Posted : 07/07/2019 11:38 am
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I've had a better look at the Nylon CF Print.  It really is very very good.  It was printed at .2 and to the naked eye it is hard to see any layer lines.  It is well bonded and tough as hell.  Previous efforts with this filament (eSun) produced a spongy result.... Not this one.  That said it is stored in a 0% RH industrial cabinet and printed from a heated (70c) dehumidifier.  

One thing I also notice with the EV3DM nozzle is it has a broad flat tip compared to the profile of others.  Also in looking a the print temp in OctoPrint I do see a short and slight dip when the cooling fan kicks in but it then recovers for the rest of the print just fine and is within 1c for the rest of the the print regardless of the fan surge (for bridges etc).  

I think we have reached a conclusion..... TC wins for nozzle material.  Full Stop.  Prints likes brass but does not wear.  The only open Q's to me are:

- Non Stick Coatings / Socks etc

- Profiles

Posted : 07/07/2019 11:44 am
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thanks for the prime line - I'll look at putting it into my into.

Posted : 07/07/2019 11:47 am
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

FYI - As the Prime Line stuff is OT, I'll work on this and post in another thread in needed (issues with your start G-Code and the MK3s/MMU2s causing it to reboot, which may also be due to the latest FW I upgraded to last night.... Anyway it will need some tuning for the MK3s/MMU2s as the filament load is a bit different).

Thanks

Nathan

Posted : 08/07/2019 3:33 am
jeffrey.s7
(@jeffrey-s7)
Trusted Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Has anyone thought about using some self sealing silicone tape?

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HWROGHW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Posted : 08/07/2019 7:41 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Back from travel, with begin test Tungsten Carbide nozzles using guy-k2's PETG Tree Frog File.

Posted : 09/07/2019 7:14 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

TC still going strong here.  Printing Glow In the Dark PLA, CF/Nylon, PETG, "Silk" PLA without issue.  No build up for me running "naked" which I'm pleased about as at some point I plan to try PEEK and I don't think a sock would survive!

 

@james - looking forward to seeing how the test goes of the various profiles.

Posted : 11/07/2019 9:05 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I am never going to use that Slice vanadium nozzle again. The Spool3D TC nozzle massively outperforms that nozzle. It's not even a contest.

Posted : 11/07/2019 1:20 pm
timo.m and Dave Avery liked
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: guy.k2

[...] I use a modification of Bobstro's prime line. The change I made was to have it deposited from a greater height. Makes removal from print plate easier and no messy blob at start.

I think yours with the lift was 1st. I wound up doing the same thing, but from another train of thought. I found divots developing on my PEI surface if I left the nozzle at home position during final warmup, so I raise it 5mm before issuing the final nozzle warmup command. I realized afterwards we had a case of convergent evolution when I realized why my prime lines were coming off so nicely. I like the cross-polination of ideas that goes on here.

Interesting stuff on the nozzles. Following that part closely.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 11/07/2019 1:45 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Well, looks like we're in agreement.  For prints requiring layer cooling the Spool3D Nozzle offers the best performance for all printable materials.  Testing was also done with Benchy's for both PLA and PETG with all 3 nozzles, and again the Spool3D outperformed all 3.  The transom placard was legible and bridging was excellent.   Later this month (on travel) will begin testing PETG Carbon fiber prints (no fan) for quality of print, layer adhesion, and strength.  For non abrasive materials, I'd like to also give E3D's Chromium Copper nozzle a try.  I've found the Mosquito to be an excellent choice (for me the only choice) for nozzle swaps.  But, I think I'm going back to doing cold swapps only.

Posted : 11/07/2019 6:31 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Nice - Any clean up issues on the Nozzles?

Posted : 11/07/2019 8:44 pm
holmes4
(@holmes4)
Estimable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I've been exchanging some email with Slice on the vanadium nozzle. Here's the latest from them:

All steel nozzles, including our Vanadium Nozzle, will have less heat conductivity than a similarly size brass nozzle. This is just a function of the material properties. However, with properly directed part cooling (i.e. airflow is not directed at the nozzle, but rather at the build plate), this is not a problem. On my personal printer (a Craftbot +) I don't need to bump the printing temperatures at all. But some users do need to increase temperatures by 5-10C if the airflow is not well controlled.

I haven't seen an issue yet with print quality or temps, but as I wrote earlier I am using the R4 extruder and not any Bear variant. I also have the Slice 50W heater and thermistor. (I am a bit skeptical about the thermistor table Slice provides, as the temp reported at ambient doesn't match, but it seems to work ok in prints so I'm not inclined to fuss with it.)

Posted : 11/07/2019 11:09 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi jmone,

Not having any serious sticking issues but doesn't cleanup as easily as the slice nozzle.  There's a rumor that this stuff is the beez kneez:

https://miller-stephenson.com/product/dry-film-ptfe-release-agent/

This post was modified 2 years ago by james.hess
Posted : 11/07/2019 11:24 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi holmes4,

I don't remember if you had a chance to print guy-k2's file.  I'm very interested in your results.  What I am able to confirm is the Spool3D nozzel works the best for prints requiring a fan.  But for that matter if the filament is non abrasive an E3D brass nozzel could be the better choice.  Just looking for the golden nozzle for all print materials.  Happy to hear the Vanadium nozzle is working for you.  Still a fan of the Vanadium nozzle as the print quality is excellent.  But the Spool3D nozzle is also able to show the slightest flaws in the electro-mechanical aspects of the printer and filament placement.  I was bummed when guy-k2 presented his PETG findings on his Mosquito.

Posted : 11/07/2019 11:43 pm
holmes4
(@holmes4)
Estimable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

You mean the tree frog? Yes. https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-general-discussion-announcements-and-releases/mk3s-mosquito-integration/paged/5/#post-148881

Posted : 11/07/2019 11:49 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi James, I do have PTFE Lube Spray but just can't work out where I put it..... so I tried using Silicon Spray Lube and it seemed to be a bit better that nothing (but it really is just an impression).  Need to remeber where my PTFE Spay is..... 🙁 

Posted : 12/07/2019 2:20 am
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

So I managed to destroy my first Heat Break (Mosquito Std).  I got a MMU2s Jam and powered the Prusa Off then with heat creep got a jam in the heat break.  I thought I'd read somewhere that just heap it up to say 250, stop the fan (so to get heat creep) and push out the filament.  I eventually did clear the jam but I'd also managed to deform the leading edge of the heat break tube so it was then catching filament.  Hours of trying to expand, trim this did not work.  It's now in the bin.

So moving on, I grabbed my Mosquito Magnum Heatbreak and installed that.... but the Insulator I managed to break into a bunch of pieces when trying to push it on.  This thing is very fragile.  Strike 2 for the day. 🙁 

Not all is lost however as I'm back printing use the Magnum (sans Insulator) and have ordered more parts from Slice. Thing is the quality looks great, maybe even better than the Std.  I also noticed that the Hot End Temp is more stable with the Magnum when the part cooling fan kicks in.  On the Std I'd see maybe a 5c drop and then it would take 20sec or so to recover.  With the Magnum it drops maybe 2c and recovers much quicker.  I guess that extra copper helps with the thermal mass.  

Here is a pic of my Frog with the Magnum (san Insulator) on the TC Nozzle.  Nice shiny and strong.

Posted : 13/07/2019 11:08 pm
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