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james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

It looks like the Bunnies, Prusa, Bondtech, and Slice got some good press!  They should be happy to see their picture in the paper.

Congrats!

Posted : 28/06/2019 8:32 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration
Posted by: james.hess

Hi jmone; Nice TC nozzel results,

Ordered a .4 TC nozzel from Spool3D.  $75 USD is a healthy price for a single nozzle.  But these combined metal characteristics would require an expensive production process.  A two piece nozzel would be much cheaper to produce.  Question; no sticking materials?  Cleans as well as the Vanadium nozzel?

I'm stuck on the Mosquito and will never go back to the screw and block architecture.  Maybe you found the allusive unicorn nozzel we've all been looking for...

I've never used the Vanadium Nozzle.  PETG was a mess on brass, was good with the Nozzle-X (coated) and pretty good on the TC.  The difference I notice is that with the Nozzle-X being coated you could snap off the PETG when the nozzle was cold.  This is not the case with the TC, you have to have a warm nozzle and wipe it off (I just use a paper towel).  That said, I've really not seen any build up - I'd say the TC fouls less than the Nozzle-X but then again I've tuned my extrude carefully to 97% which made a big difference as PETG was unforgiving for me with over extrusion and fouling the nozzle!

Posted : 28/06/2019 9:25 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi jmone,

Thanks for sharing, appreciated...  Sounds like I'll stear clear of the Nozzle-X.  I can confirm that PETG can be difficult with brass and steel.  Really can tar up when things aren't close to it's happy place.  Just one little glob off the print can throw it off.  Want to try some high temperature teflon type spray whose vehicle will flash off when heated while maintaining it's non-stick properties to around 350C.  I think the TC nozzle is porous enough to retain a non-stick coating.  The throat and orifice could be another story.  This is one of the reasons I'm so high on the Slice Vanadium nozzles.

Posted : 28/06/2019 10:12 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I do like my Nozzle-X on the E3DV6.  It was certainly better for PETG than brass (but you have to bump the temps by 10c) and of course has the same profile as their other nozzles.  My Mosquito build was done with the TC nozzle for the fist time, so I'm comparing Nozzle-X/E3DV6 vs TC/Mosquito and from what I've seen so far the TC/Mosquito suits me well.  At some point I need to try with the Magnum, High Temp Thermister / 50w Heater etc that I have the parts for.   But that will be for another week.

Posted : 28/06/2019 10:55 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Looks like have have alot of tuning to do with the TC/Mosquito combo.  Tried some large flat prints and the TC nozzle was ripping up the first layer with some of my PETG Filaments (but less so on different colours).  One big area of concern is the default prime line makes a big blob at the start (where the nozzle is at home, does not move, but extrudes a bunch of filament).  This blog tends to then stick to the TC Nozzle and then drags over the print surface eventally ripping up the first layer.  Nasty mess.  Where in PrusaSlicer can you control the Prime Line?

Problem is I'm away for the next week so it may have to wait till I'm back.

Posted : 29/06/2019 8:51 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Worry not. It's pretty simple to change the prime line. The gcode is within PrusaSlicer

Printer settings tab

Custom G-code

Start G-code

If you use my PETG 3MF with Kuo N7 Mesh printer sertting, you can see I use a completely different prime line to avoid that mess and make the prime line easier to remove later.

 

 

M83 ; extruder relative mode
G28 W ; MUST FIRST home all without mesh bed level or else risk nozzle crash!
G0 X70 Y70 Z0.2 F2000; PINDA warms faster near bed
M140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; set bed temp
M104 S160 ; preheat extruder to no ooze temp to help warm PINDA
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; wait for bed temp
M109 S160 ; wait for extruder temp
M860 S36 ; wait for PINDA temp. For most stable PINDA temp during mesh, set temp here 1-2 deg below your actual PINDA temp at end of mesh cal.
M104 S100 ; drop extruder to lower temp to minimize PINDA temp rise during mesh
G80 N7 R1 ; mesh bed leveling with extra points but this requires 3.6.0c firmware
G1 Y-3.0 F1000.0 ; go outside print area
G92 E0.0
G1 Z3 ; raise head safely clear of bed before heating extruder
M104 S[first_layer_temperature] ; we heat extruder AFTER mesh to minimize ooze
M109 S[first_layer_temperature] ; wait for extruder temp
G1 Z0.7 ; move slightly above bed for easy clean intro line
G1 X60.0 E9.0 F1000.0 ; intro line
G1 X100.0 E12.5 F1000.0 ; intro line
G1 E-0.8 F2100; bobstro anti-stringing retract and wipe
G1 X99.0 E0 F1000.0 ; -1mm intro line @ 0.00
G1 X110.0 E0 F1000.0 ; +10mm intro line @ 0.00
G1 Z0 ;lower head back to normal Z after intro line
G92 E0.0
M221 S{if layer_height==0.05}100{else}95{endif}
Posted : 29/06/2019 9:09 am
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Thanks!!! - I've only just come over from Simplify3D so not sure yet where all the GCode is in PrusaSlicer 🙂

I'm now also thinking of an anti stick coating, something like "tungsten disulfide sulfide ws2 powder" would be the go, but as I don't have that on hand I could try Silicon or PTFE spray..... 

Posted : 29/06/2019 9:35 am
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guys,

Finished testing the Vanadium Nozzle with Kapton Tape shielding the nozzle.  The results are promising.. The middle frog is printed @245C using guy-k2's gcode and the Kapton Tape.  On the Left is no tape at 245C, and on the right is no tape @265C.

 

This post was modified 2 years ago by james.hess
Posted : 30/06/2019 5:01 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Low angle view,

 

 

Attachment removed
Posted : 30/06/2019 5:11 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Nice demo of how exquisitely sensitive the vanadium nozzle is to airflow cooling it. Your tape improves fusion of the PETG. It's still nowhere near as glassy as a better thermal conductive nozzle would render it, but yes, the tape helps.

I routine trim my silicone socks to expose more of the tip due to the socks otherwise getting torn to bits by PETG curls, but this suggests keeping the nozzle covered has some benefit. 

 

Posted : 30/06/2019 8:04 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

The Kapton Tape certainly isn't the fix, but as you mentioned it is a reasonable demonstration.  When the TC nozzle shows will do the same.

Posted : 30/06/2019 11:38 pm
jmone
(@jmone)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I'm in Singapore this week.  Shame the TC Nozzle is out of stock or I could have grabbed a handful for us all!

Posted : 01/07/2019 10:00 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

MatterHackers has the EVD3M tungsten carbide 0.4 mm nozzle in stock.

Usual conflict of tungsten vs tungsten carbide materials description, but we'll soon see. We'll have a nice head to head on a Mosquito when the TC nozzles arrive.

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/ev3dm-tungsten-nozzle-175mm-x-040mm/sk/MEZJ1CDL

Meanwhile, I was amazed last night to find my MK3S with Mosquito and brass nozzle successfully did a 9 cm bridge in Amazon PETG. I didn't notice the long bridge when I set up the print job. When I returned to check on the print there it was. A bridge formed with just one super sagged filament and the rest pretty well intact and with minimal sag. 

This post was modified 2 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 02/07/2019 5:37 am
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy-k2,

I'm interested in your bridging result; temp, fan, bridging speed..  9cm is an excellent  stretch..  E3D .4?

Posted : 04/07/2019 2:07 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I'm interested in your bridging result; temp, fan, bridging speed..  9cm is an excellent  stretch..  E3D .4?

Mosquito standard hot end, E3D 40 watt cartridge, E3D thermistor.

E3D BRASS nozzle

BS4RHD fan shroud

Amazon PETG Black

0.2 1st layer, 0.15 mm remainder

Nozzle Temps (1st/remainder) 255 / 260

Cooling min 40%, max 75%, bridge 80%

No supports enabled.

 

Speeds were my usual PETG settings...

Perimeters 45 mm/s

small perimeters 25 mm/s

external perimeters 35 mm/s

infill 200 mm/s

solid infill 200 mm/s

top solid infill 50 mm/s

support material 50 mm/s

support material interface 100%

bridge 30 mm/s

gap fil 40 mm/s

1st layer 20 mm/s

 

Posted : 04/07/2019 9:42 am
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
Tungsten Carbide Nozzle

Both Spool3D and Matterhackers (EV3DM) tungsten carbide nozzle arrived. The EV3DM nozzle definitely has a longer threaded section than a standard E3D nozzle. the one from Spool3D is a pretty close dimensional match to a E3D nozzle.

I've only done one print thus far, but there simply is stark improvement going from vanadium steel to tungsten carbide. The hugely improved thermal conductivity of tungsten carbide made a huge difference printing at same 240/245C setttings.

Overhangs of belly are perfect and nearly entire surface is glassy looking when printed with tungsten carbide nozzle. It is basically what a brass nozzle does. Vanadium steel needs another 20-30C boost before getting decent results.

Increasing temperature by about 5C seems to still be needed with my mosquito compared to E3D hot end, but I can work with that. Having to use up 20-30C of head room just for PETG largely defeated why I wanted a mosquito. Now, now we're back in the running for carbon fiber polycarb.

My recommendation is to skip the Slice vanadium nozzle and go for a much better performing tungsten carbide nozzle.  

Posted : 06/07/2019 1:42 pm
james.hess
(@james-hess)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

Hi guy-k2,

Your test results are extremely encouraging.  Metal characteristics seem to be finicky when dealing with melted plastics. Currently on travel I'm hopeful to see the spool3D nozzle in the mail on return.  I'm confident test results will track you and jmone's.  Question, is material sticking to the TC nozzle?  Cleanup?

Great to see progress..  Though very satisfied with the physical design and material placement of the Vanadium nozzle, Slice needs to take a second look at metal selection.  Vanadium alloy?  Would prefer a one stop shop.

Posted : 06/07/2019 4:41 pm
holmes4
(@holmes4)
Estimable Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I'm left wondering why I am not seeing the same sort of problems with my Mosquito/vanadium setup. Maybe my using the Slice 50W heater helps? I have not had to boost temps at all to get great prints from PETG.

Posted : 06/07/2019 6:33 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

50 watts is a bigger thermal budget. I have one of the 50 watt cartridges here now. That will get installed on the next rebuild. 

Holmes, I can't recall if you are on a standard or magnum Mosquito. I'll build to match yours before next test.

Posted : 06/07/2019 10:13 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
RE: MK3S Mosquito integration

I misspoke -- The MatterHackers EV3DM tungsten carbide nozzle isn't longer in the threaded section. It's the portion below the threads that is longer. 

Overall tip to thread end on EV3DM is 14.50 mm <-- this one is quite a bit longer

Overall tip to thread end on E3D brass is 12.28 mm

Overall tip to thread end on Spool3D TC is 12.50 mm < this is within live Z adjust range.

I am setting my PINDA to 0.8 mm above Spool3D TC. If I switch to brass, I can still re-adjust live-Z without moving PINDA physically.

With the EV3DM nozzle, the length disparity is enough that one should physically reposition PINDA.

This post was modified 2 years ago by Bunny Science
Posted : 07/07/2019 12:39 am
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