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Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum  

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Chocki
(@chocki)
Prominent Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

Yes, first thing I did after having strange issues in much earlier prior firmware updates. Oh seems so long ago now, but I did have some strange values when first running the belt calibration routine which makes me think the factory reset did not actually clear everything down and had some strange stuck in a menu yes no loop as if button stuck during initial Factory setup run.

I'll try another factory reset, but I would have expected the first one to manage just fine. But then again!....

The printer is working!, so I may just leave it and continue trawling through the code until I find the section I need and see exactly what is supposed to occur during the belt test routine. It says self test failed, but works perfectly!. (It's my slight OCD that is the real issue 😉 )

Normal people believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet....
Posted : 04/06/2020 8:52 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

Over 24 hours of continuous printing PC at 300C without a hitch. 

Next, convert printer back to PETG and test a long PETG print.

Posted : 05/06/2020 6:41 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

Converted back to PETG printing by...

1. Running 30 cm eSun cleaning filament at 285C

2. Nozzle tip manually cleaned of PC residue.

3. Change to my usual TeKKIINNG textured PEI plate for PETG.

Multi-hour PETG print underway. Fingers crossed.

 

Posted : 05/06/2020 10:16 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

luvology I was thinking more about what your Bondtech extruder and my BNBSX might have in common. Whereas I found a problem at my reduction gear that would make it harder for my extruder motor to move filament, there is another thing to look for beyond just a simple loose set screw.

Might be worth checking how well your Bondtech drive gear groove is aligned with the filament path. It's possible that its set screw is tight, but the drive gear is not well positioned on drive shaft. That would increase filament friction and create similar issues.

 

Posted : 05/06/2020 11:13 pm
Bunny Science
(@bunny-science)
Noble Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

Three hours into PETG print and no jamming. It would typically fail about 1-2 hours into a print when printer was "sick."

 

 

Posted : 06/06/2020 12:52 am
InspGadgt
(@inspgadgt)
Active Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

I have noticed a very similar thing happening for me and come to similar conclusions.  To me the jamming seemed just like an E3D V6 with improper cooling and heat break heat transfer.  I upgraded to the Sunon fan and that helped.  I figured out if you tighten down the fan it may tweak in the slightest and cause it to not spin well.  It is completely UN-noticable except for the print starts jamming.  So I now leave the fan screwed on slightly loose.  I looked at the differences between the E3D and the Slice hot end cooling and noticed the E3D V6 cooling is better directed and captured around the heat sink.  Even though the E3D V6 fan is smaller and has less air flow it works well.  So I designed and printed an funnel air duct to better direct the air to the heat sink on the Mosquito Magnum.  Initially it looked like it was helping a lot as I was getting 0 stringing from the purge line to the print as we are all used to seeing.  But after a few prints it started jamming again.  This time I took note of something that I noticed previously but didn't think much of...I had the bottom of the PTFE tube slightly reamed out to make sure the filament can move through it smoothly...the filament that jammed jammed at the top of the heat break and had melted and reformed into the shape of the reamed out PTFE.  So now it was too big to print or unload.  I'm starting to think that the outer heat sink that attaches directly to the heat block is transferring too much heat to the top of the heat break...hence why you are seeing hotter temps at the top of the heat break than in the center of the heat break's heat sink.  I'm thinking instead of the 4 little metal tubes that space off the heat block from the heat sink...maybe using something like 4 small carbon fiber rods so less heat is transferred to the outer heat sink.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BErB3i4ihxhBRNeEA

Posted : 18/01/2021 3:36 am
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @bunny-science

If it still thermal jams, I'm putting in the Sunon fan. 

 

Instead of replacing it with a Sunon fan, why not just overvolt the noctua fan by a bit above nominal?

Posted : 19/01/2021 9:18 pm
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @bunny-science

I really hate swapping between the materials because going back down to PETG from PC requires a full hot end cleaning to remove all higher temp material residue before printing with lower temp. So, once i'm in PC, I get all my PC prints done before switching back down.

Interesting thread!  Have a look at the wam bam Mutant.  Then you can simply have a PC printhead and a separate PETG printhead and swap between the two in mere seconds without having to do "a full hot end cleaning."

Posted : 19/01/2021 9:22 pm
InspGadgt
(@inspgadgt)
Active Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @dimprov
Posted by: @bunny-science

If it still thermal jams, I'm putting in the Sunon fan. 

 

Instead of replacing it with a Sunon fan, why not just overvolt the noctua fan by a bit above nominal?

How would you do that on the Prusa?

Posted : 19/01/2021 9:33 pm
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @inspgadgt
Posted by: @dimprov
Posted by: @bunny-science

If it still thermal jams, I'm putting in the Sunon fan. 

 

Instead of replacing it with a Sunon fan, why not just overvolt the noctua fan by a bit above nominal?

How would you do that on the Prusa?

There are many ways, but one way would be this:  https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles-.../quieting-the-r3-blower-design/paged/3/

It would also give more control over the air throughput.

This post was modified 9 months ago by dimprov
Posted : 20/01/2021 1:23 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

@inspgadgt

You buy one and plug it in.  

 

https://www.printedsolid.com/products/ldo-sunon-fan-mf40100v1-1000c-g99

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 20/01/2021 2:18 am
InspGadgt
(@inspgadgt)
Active Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @cwbullet

@inspgadgt

You buy one and plug it in.  

 

https://www.printedsolid.com/products/ldo-sunon-fan-mf40100v1-1000c-g99

From my original post:

"I have noticed a very similar thing happening for me and come to similar conclusions. To me the jamming seemed just like an E3D V6 with improper cooling and heat break heat transfer. I upgraded to the Sunon fan and that helped."

Posted : 20/01/2021 5:35 am
InspGadgt
(@inspgadgt)
Active Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @dimprov
Posted by: @inspgadgt
Posted by: @dimprov
Posted by: @bunny-science

If it still thermal jams, I'm putting in the Sunon fan. 

 

Instead of replacing it with a Sunon fan, why not just overvolt the noctua fan by a bit above nominal?

How would you do that on the Prusa?

There are many ways, but one way would be this:  https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles-.../quieting-the-r3-blower-design/paged/3/

It would also give more control over the air throughput.

That's a bit more complex than I would like for something that should be a simple fix.

Posted : 20/01/2021 5:38 am
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

@inspgadgt

Depending on your skills, there may be easier ways.  If you read a bit further, one was proposed in the other thread.  Also  there now exist similar yet fairly inexpensive PWM modules that integrate the mosfet.  If you don't mind the greater noise or more limited control, then sure, use a Sunon or whatever.

Posted : 20/01/2021 6:00 am
InspGadgt
(@inspgadgt)
Active Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

@dimprov

I have the Sunon...it isn't enough.  I'm considering using a blower fan as I'm pretty sure those have more airflow...just need to design and print a duct for it.

Posted : 20/01/2021 7:01 am
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

@inspGadget

How hot are you running your magnum?  Above, BS said he was running the hotend of his Magnum at 300C but still found the Nashua to be sufficient (after tighting the loose grub screw that is).

This post was modified 9 months ago by dimprov
Posted : 20/01/2021 7:16 am
InspGadgt
(@inspgadgt)
Active Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum
Posted by: @dimprov

@inspGadget

How hot are you running your magnum?  Above, BS said he was running the hotend of his Magnum at 300C but still found the Nashua to be sufficient (after tighting the loose grub screw that is).

I didn't tweak my settings so it won't allow me to go above 295°

Posted : 20/01/2021 9:23 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: Diagnosing New Onset Heat Creep Jams on Slice Magnum

Also, if you overheat the hotend, You will likely get heat creep.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 20/01/2021 10:35 am
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