.06 Nozzle and Supports Help  

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travis.m5
(@travis-m5)
Active Member

Printing with a 0.6 nozzle (ABS) I'm getting some really bad supports that are causing print fails. The supports are moving, causing the filament to not adhere and string which gets picked up by the print head on the next pass. I'm not entirely sure this is a 0.6 issue or ABS but it doesn't seem to happen when I print PLA.

I've done multiple 1st layer calibrations and have it dialed in pretty good and a few extrusion multiplier tests to tweak the multiplier to that specific filament. Printing 110/245 with a max volumetric speed of 11 mm3/s. Other than that, I'm pretty much using the stock Slicer 0.6 settings. 

The only other real issue I can see is maybe some layer separation issues. I've printed some good prints that had minimal supports but anything with a decent amount of supports ends up failing.

Any ideas?

Posted : 12/11/2019 12:50 pm
Tim
(@tim-m30)
Illustrious Member

What are the extrusion widths for the supports?  Also, supports generally use an automatic layer height (not the same as the part).  I'd suspect you've changed how the supports are built when you created the 0.6 mm profile.

You may want to try the default 0.6 mm nozzle profiles Prusa supplies.  If they fail, then start looking for hardware issues.

 

ps: also you want to ensure this ratio is proper for the nozzle diameter:

This post was modified 9 months ago by Tim
It is always wise to get more than one opinion......
Posted : 12/11/2019 11:06 pm
travis.m5
(@travis-m5)
Active Member

@tim-m30

I'm using the default Prusa Slicer profile for the 0.6 nozzle. The only changes I made are for the filament.

Supports are 0.55mm width and default is 0.65. 

Layer hight limits are 0.15 min and 0.4 max (0.4 being 75% of the nozzle width).

 

Posted : 13/11/2019 12:28 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

I've noticed that you cannot change the support extrusion width using the Prusa profiles...

but I can in my custom profiles.

I always use 0 for support extrusion widths, which uses the default extrusion width. I'm curious why Prusa is using 0.55mm for a 0.60mm nozzle. A narrower extrusion is going to be weaker at higher layer heights -- you're extruding more cylindrical cross-sections the higher the layer -- and might contribute to this problem. @travis-m5 what layer height are you using and have you tried a lower layer height?

And for some reason, drag-and-drop images are a problem for the forum now. I'm having to make multiple attempts.

 

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 13/11/2019 2:18 am
travis.m5
(@travis-m5)
Active Member

@bobstro

Yeah, I think I read in a Prusa article (can't remember which) that it's set to under-extrude supports to make them easier to break off. It seems like it would potentially cause more issues, especially like you said on higher level supports.

I'm printing 0.2mm layer height currently. Have tried the 0.15mm with similar issues.

By the way, just wanted to say thanks for compiling everything on your site, it's been extremely helpful. That's where I got the 0.6 nozzle calibration files to fine tune my z calibration and extrusion multiplier. 

Posted : 13/11/2019 3:17 am
Tim
(@tim-m30)
Illustrious Member

I'm not sure of the logic, but Prusa sets extrusion width a bit less than nozzle, even on the 0.4 nozzle.  But reducing waste is high on my suspect list.

 

ps: I've built very tall supports using defaults, and have never had issues except when the slicer made a tall support a 2 mm x 2 mm tower; that was a fail from the start (required hand holding with a filament pen to tag it to another support as the part built.

This post was modified 9 months ago by Tim
It is always wise to get more than one opinion......
Posted : 13/11/2019 3:17 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @tim-m30

I'm not sure of the logic, but Prusa sets extrusion width a bit less than nozzle, even on the 0.4 nozzle.  But reducing waste is high on my suspect list.

I'm not sure why some settings are unchangeable (grayed out) in the Prusa profiles but not mine. I've run into a couple of mystery blocked settings and I'm not sure what the difference is.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 13/11/2019 3:35 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

Just realized the screengrab with the grayed out extrusion width option had the tooltip overlaying the important bit. Here it is again with the grayed out Support material option.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 13/11/2019 3:42 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @travis-m5

[...] Yeah, I think I read in a Prusa article (can't remember which) that it's set to under-extrude supports to make them easier to break off. It seems like it would potentially cause more issues, especially like you said on higher level supports.

That makes sense. Not sure why it's actually grayed out on the Prusa profiles. Reading the tooltip, it sounds like setting the support extrusion width as a percentage of layer height is a smart option. I'm going to test this with my profiles.

[...] By the way, just wanted to say thanks for compiling everything on your site, it's been extremely helpful. That's where I got the 0.6 nozzle calibration files to fine tune my z calibration and extrusion multiplier. 

Thanks! I try to capture my notes there before I forget all this stuff. I've fallen behind a bit lately.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 13/11/2019 3:49 am
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

The prusa defaults have Generate Support Material un-ticked.  As soon as you enable support material it enables the support width settings.

Posted : 13/11/2019 7:24 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @neophyl

The prusa defaults have Generate Support Material un-ticked.  As soon as you enable support material it enables the support width settings.

Ah, of course. Thanks.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 13/11/2019 12:50 pm
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