Notifications
Clear all

first layer issues  

  RSS
janik.s
(@janik-s)
Eminent Member
first layer issues

Hello guys,

I finally got my mk2 kit and was able to assemble it.
I ran through all the calibrations and tests at the first start and after I had to adjust the PINDA I printed the V2Calibration which was printed okay. (with a little bit of live adjustments)
I got ahead with printing the Prusa logo which was preloaded on the SD card.
Also this print was okay. - I got 2 tiny holes in the letters but that's not that bad.
I wanted to go a step further with printing the treefrog which was on the SD and then the nightmare began 😀

The small foot of the frog doesn't wanted to keep on the bed.
I tried it a couple of times also increasing the bed temp to 60°C doesn't help.

I started new with something easier - a 4x4 calibration cube ( http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:477 )
with the first layer speed at only 50% and the bed temp set to 60°C I started the first layer (nozzle - 215°C)
It looks like the Z-Height is still to high (printed with -0,595)
But the main problem is that it also doesn't want to stick to the bed.
I started bending on the corners at the 3 or 4 layer.

?dl=0
?dl=0

I was using window cleaner to clean the bed which I heard that may can be one cause of bad adhesion. (for the prusa logo I used the alcohol pads which were included)
Knowing that I bought some Isopropyl alcohol (70%) - afterwards I read that some guys only use +90% IPA (Is 70% not that good?)

So I cleaned with IPA and also added a brim of 4mm to the cube - which also can increase the adhesion.
The results were pretty much the same...
Starting good at the first layer and began to bend after the 3 or 4.
during the first layer of this try I also adjusted the Z level to -0,607
Is it still to high?

Settings were the same as before
1. layer - 50% speed, 60°C bed, 215°C nozzle
the rest with 100% speed, 55°C bed and 215°C for the nozzle

?dl=0
?dl=0
?dl=0

I also printed the calibration gcode a couple of times now.
From time to time its looking wired - with small blobs.
During the print it looks like it extrudes a blob moves on and stretches the filament until the next blob gets extruded.
(default settings: 55°C, 215°C, 100%)

?dl=0

If anyone of you guys has some tips or can help me in any way this would be very great.
Thank you in advance for your help and have a great day!

KR
Janik

...
Posted : 20/01/2017 9:47 pm
richard.l
(@richard-l)
Moderator
Re: first layer issues

You need to adjust your Live Z Adjust setting. It needs to be lower to the bed, so, for example, if it is currently at -.500 it would need to go down to at least -.600.

There should be no gaps in the first layer.

...
Posted : 21/01/2017 4:01 am
stephan.k
(@stephan-k)
Reputable Member
Re: first layer issues

Just on a side note: I use 70% IPA all the time and it works well enough. No need to replace it imho.

Posted : 21/01/2017 6:13 am
janik.s
(@janik-s)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: first layer issues

Thank you for your quick replies!

I moved down to -0.680 and printed the batman logo.
first layer at 55°C,215°C and 50%
the rest with same temp and 75% and after the 5 layer to 100%

I guess it's looking a little bit better now but it still has some bending at the edges:

?dl=0
?dl=0

Is there a way to prevent such imperfections like in the middle -or does this just happens from time to time?

I also heard that a Z-heigth should be around -0.4 and -0.1
I'm currently at -0.680...
Is there a limit I can hit which tells me that I have to adjust some thing more then only the Z height or can I go as far as possible until the layers get tighter together?

Thanks again for any suggestions and help.
It's very much appreciated!

...
Posted : 21/01/2017 11:06 am
stephan.k
(@stephan-k)
Reputable Member
Re: first layer issues

Looking at you picture of the underside of the batman logo, your nozzle is still too high. I'd try lowering it more. 1st Layer is supposed to be "solid" / lines touching with no gaps between the individual lines.

(And yes, you could raise your PINDA a bit to get the adjustment between -0.100 to -0.400 )

Posted : 21/01/2017 5:08 pm
janik.s
(@janik-s)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: first layer issues

I lowered it to -0.740 and the batman logo looked pretty good.
?dl=0

currently I'm printing the treefrog.
I had to restart the print because one foot got kicked off the bed from the nozzle.
I restarted it and printed over 50% of the modle with around 50% of speed.

Is this caused by the higher move speed and maybe some incorrect extrusion which then was cought by the nozzle?
It seems that a lower speed helped until yet.
But printing at only half of the speed isn't a solution or?

Does a higher (lower then -0.4 like mine) Z height cause any other problems or can I still go with -0.74?
Or why is it recommended to have Z height in that range?

Sorry if it is annoying if I ask all those newbie questions but it really helps to get an answer or confirmation to understand how everything is working together.

Thanks again for your help!

...
Posted : 21/01/2017 10:35 pm
avi.s
(@avi-s)
Trusted Member
Re: first layer issues

currently I'm printing the treefrog.
I had to restart the print because one foot got kicked off the bed from the nozzle.

I have the same exact problem. Twice now the left front foot of the treefrog was pushed aside. I wonder how to get it to stay in place? Maybe I need to use the glue stick because the footprint is relatively small for the height of the foot?

...
Posted : 22/01/2017 3:31 am
avi.s
(@avi-s)
Trusted Member
Re: first layer issues

The glue stick worked. After failing twice using just a clean bed the glue stick worked. It was tough, very tough, to remove the frog from the bed though. Maybe I applied too much glue.

...
Posted : 22/01/2017 9:09 am
JeffJordan
(@jeffjordan)
Moderator
Re: first layer issues

@janik
first i would recommend this way for 1st layer calibration.
💡

then (@all) ➡
with a good aligned 1st layer, you usually don't need to use a glue stick.... especially when you print with pla or abs. after using a glue stick, it's a pita to get the PEI sheet clean and grease-free. IPA doesn't work sufficient to get off any fat (from the remainders of the glue stick, or even your fingerprints) from the print surface. the only thing that really helps is acetone (or acetone based nail polish remover).

3rd: 😕
the 50µm treefrog is really hard to print. i managed to do so a few times, but not with all my different filaments.
furthermore: some slicers (for example S3D) refuse to slice its *.stl with detail settings and say that it might pop off the printbed.
the problem with the 50µm-treefrog is the shallow rise of the legs. there you'll get some up-curling and after a while the nozzle hits the foot off from the printbed. try to reduce the filament flow a little bit and the print speed.... then you may succeed with your choosen filament.

just my 20ct
:mrgreen:

dem inscheniör is' nix zu schwör......
Posted : 22/01/2017 12:18 pm
janik.s
(@janik-s)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: first layer issues

Thanks Jeff for the tip.
I narrowed the Z height to currently -0.745 and have pretty good results.

The treefrog was really hard to print.
After the right foot got kicked off after nearly an hour print time I started new and run only at 50% of the speed until the front foots were connected to the main body. Then I increased to 75% and finally 100% of speed which results in a good print but took nearly 5h instead of 3...

I also added (maybe too much) glue on the bed just to be sure.
Removing the frog was very hard!
But cleaning the bed afterwards wasn't that bad.
I just took a sponge with warm water to get rid of the glue and cleaned it with IPA afterwards.

...
Posted : 22/01/2017 12:47 pm
richard.l
(@richard-l)
Moderator
Re: first layer issues

with a good aligned 1st layer, you usually don't need to use a glue stick.... especially when you print with pla or abs. after using a glue stick, it's a pita to get the PEI sheet clean and grease-free. IPA doesn't work sufficient to get off any fat (from the remainders of the glue stick, or even your fingerprints) from the print surface. the only thing that really helps is acetone (or acetone based nail polish remover).

There are no animal products used in the making of glue anymore. Glue is crazy easy to remove from the PEI surface with warm water and then use IPA after the glue has been removed.

...
Posted : 22/01/2017 4:10 pm
JeffJordan
(@jeffjordan)
Moderator
Re: first layer issues


There are no animal products used in the making of glue anymore. ...

😆
don't know what the glue stick was made of (might depend on the brand). i had several problems here to get it off the printbed. there was always a thin, greasy remainder. anyhow, acetone did the job for me.
:mrgreen:

dem inscheniör is' nix zu schwör......
Posted : 22/01/2017 7:53 pm
Share: