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Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!  

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Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Hi there!

i have tried printing with this stuff and some of it sticks to the PEI and some of it doesn't. The Form Futura settings are very similar to ABS and they say to use standard ABS settings but it's not working. The solid parts seem to stick fine but when it tries to layout the bridge material, the underlying vertical lines don't stick to the PEI so everything gets tangled up when the horizontal bridge material lines try to cross the vertical ones.

Not sure if maybe need to change the bridge pattern or create a new material setting altogether. It's weird because the flat parts stick very well but these long vertical lines don't. I tried stick glue and it didn't make a difference. Maybe I could raise the bed temperature, but honestly we are newbies in this and have no idea how to proceed.

Here is a link to the print settings they recommend and I don't spot anything that is very different from the ABS settings that came bundled with the Slic3r I got from Prusa: https://filaments.ca/pages/fomrfutura-3d-filament-materials-print-settings

TIA,
Alex

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Posted : 19/09/2017 3:46 pm
Petclaud
(@petclaud)
Active Member
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Hi Alex,

I received a sample FormFutura Crystal Flex yesterday. I only did one sample print this morning which turned out great.
Used the standard Prusa ABS settings with minimal changes. Extruder temp 245C and bed temp 100C, extrusion multiplier 1.0, 1st layer speed to 50%.

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Posted : 23/09/2017 9:46 am
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

I have tried everything but I will give it another shot using your settings.
Did you prepare the PEI with anything (ABS Juice, Kapton tape, DimaFix etc. ?).

Thanks!
Alex

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Posted : 26/09/2017 2:42 pm
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

I get wildly different result from you. It doesn't stick AT ALL nor to the PEI nor to itself. I have attached the settings pages and two test results: one with small parts, another with a flat test surface test. I think attachments are limited to 3 so I will post another one with the resulting prints.

Can you please check all your settings and attach a picture of your print? How can we be getting such wildly disparate results? My Crystal Flex Batch No. is 306742 12017, using an i3 MK2

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Posted : 26/09/2017 3:23 pm
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Results attached with the settings you suggested. Formfutura replied to me saying literally "We usually get good results on a heated build plate with PET or Kapton tape and prepared with a fixative spray such as DimaFix."

So I am really baffled on how you got a great result on plain heated Prusa PEI without any exotic fixatives. I have spent 3 days trying different settings and finally got a first layer to stick using Gorilla tape but the next layers would not stick to each other so there is something very strange going on here.

Either my batch is bad, or the product is crap and they sent you something else that actually works.

Of course another possibility is that Formfutura and other filament makers troll these forums for PR damage control to cover up a terribly bad product release. But for now I'm trusting your humanity and assume you are another helpful and proud Prusa owner just trying to help another fellow in trouble 🙂

Thanks!
Alex

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Posted : 26/09/2017 3:53 pm
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Before any replies about printer set-up, calibration etc. I print A LOT of PLA almost every day so my live Z is properly calibrated and perfect PLA prints. I have attached an example printed yesterday.

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Posted : 26/09/2017 4:03 pm
PJR
 PJR
(@pjr)
Moderator
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Humm. PEI could easily be classed as an exotic fixative.

From the pictures, either your Live Z is quite a way out or you have some slicer parameters set incorrectly.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 26/09/2017 4:04 pm
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Live Z works perfect for PLA as I showed in my PLA print. Should it be re-adjusted for this material ? AFAIK the Live Z is a mechanical distance that should not be affected by changing the filament, or am I mistaken?

The Slic3r settings are standard Prusa ABS settings with the few adjustments that was recommended by @petclaud

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Posted : 26/09/2017 5:38 pm
PJR
 PJR
(@pjr)
Moderator
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Well, if you search the forum, you will see that people use a different Live Z for ABS to that of PLA.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 26/09/2017 7:10 pm
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

I see. I will surely give that a try but in one of my tests I played around with the live Z but I will combine this with the 245 temp suggested by @petclaud
Anyway after all these tests I have little faith in this material, although it's advertised as easy to print with and that's ideal for multimaterial prints because it supposedly adheres well to ABS and PLA. I don't even think this stuff adheres to itself ! much less any things else.
It was pretty expensive so hopefully I can get something out of it.

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Posted : 26/09/2017 9:23 pm
PJR
 PJR
(@pjr)
Moderator
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

I wasted half a spool of copperfill before I got it printing. Sounds as though you're in the same boat...

Work on it; you'll get there.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 26/09/2017 10:35 pm
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

I finally got some good prints with this. Not great but pretty good to start.

Went from -275 for PLA to -685 for Crystal Flex. Yes that is 0.410mm ! Any more (-690 to -695) and it drags the edges, any less (-680) and it doesn't adhere properly. I was afraid ti scratch the PEI but I went in small increments until I got it just right.

Maybe the non-temperature-compensated P.I.N.D.A. of the MK2 has something to do with the high live Z compensation at the higher temperature?

I used the standard Prusa ABS settings with 250/100 for the first layer and then 250/90 for subsequent layers. Also 50% speed for first layer.

My impressions so far on Crystal Flex:

It has absolutely no bridging capabilities so either full support it or adjust your design accordingly. But it's definitively not an easy replacement for PLA as advertised.

The elasticity is not that great. Thin parts deform with mild pressure and do not bounce back into shape. Maybe thicker parts work better, but again, it seems false advertising. Look at the last picture and the parts were deformed just by pressing on the sides with my fingers and then I tried to straighten them out for the picture.

I will test this out in the wild and see if it has any advantages over other flex and transparent materials.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 3:38 am
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

repeated post by mistake.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 3:43 am
Alex@AgroMe
(@alexagrome)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

repeated post by mistake

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Posted : 27/09/2017 3:45 am
PJR
 PJR
(@pjr)
Moderator
Re: Form Futura Crystal Flex 1.75 - Please Help!

Well, it's good to know that you have managed to print it!

Try printing a temperature tower; start high and go lower. I think you are way too hot.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 27/09/2017 9:11 am
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