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gary.j
(@gary-j)
Active Member
ASA Not printing level.

Hi, I have tried everything I know to keep the print base level.  I'm printing a wing section from 3DLabPrint using Prusament ASA but the print is curving at the ends. The print adheres to the bed and doesn't lift as it has ABS juice on it and I added a 5mm brim attached to the print.  However, when I remove the print plate from the bed it is curved.  It seems the shrinkage is lifting the magnetic sheet away from the bed whilst printing. I have placed clips over the heated bed and magnetic sheet but is still happens.  I have even checked the bed for level making minor tweaks but this has made not difference.  I can't reduce the print temp as it needs to be between 275 and 280 degrees to get the print to adhere between layers as it is only a single perimeter. If I could get it right I will have an aircraft that can sit in the sun without warping.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm prepared to try anything......within reason 🙂

 

Thanks

Gary

This topic was modified 1 year ago by gary.j
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Posted : 20/07/2020 2:43 pm
snaslund
(@snaslund)
Eminent Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

That is going to be difficult since ASA generally warps on large parts and the 3dlabprint planes are thin walled and light as possible.  The only thing I think might help is keeping a build enclosure at a stable temp throughout and slowly cooling the entire part back down to room temp.  The differential temp between layers on the heatbed,  already cooled layers and the hot current layer is what causes the warping so anything that maintains even temp throughout is helpfull.

Posted : 20/07/2020 9:07 pm
gary.j
(@gary-j)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: ASA Not printing level.

Thanks, snaslund, I have the enclosure reasonably well secured but have noticed the bed does not maintain as high a temperature at the edges of the print.  So taking into account your message, I opened the S3D Factory file (as it is one of the earlier 3DLabPrint planes and doesn't convert well in Prusa SLIC3R) and added a BRIM taking it to the top of the print.  This function is in the Prusa SLIC3R but not in S3D. Hopefully , this will provide a more balanced temperature during the print.  I will post the result after it has finished the 12hr print.

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Posted : 22/07/2020 7:34 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@gary-j

Is this the sort of thing you mean? 


a surrounding wall to keep heat in and drafts out? I have given 5mm separation here, it could easily be more or less, what ever you need... 

Regards Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 22/07/2020 9:48 pm
gary.j
(@gary-j)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: ASA Not printing level.

Thanks, Joantabb, that's exactly what I meant, the only difference with S3D you can't get the Brim to start attached to the item.  However, I have managed to print the wing section with a 1mm deviation at the thinnest end (Trailing edge). This I can manage. 

However, I have another issue which I'm sure you can answer easily.  I have the stl file from 3DLabPrint and I can load it into Prusa Slic3r and it produces the Gcode without an issue. However, When I mirror the file the internal structure is deleted as an error. Only the perimeter and more solid items?  is there a way that Prusa can be set to ignore the errors?

Many thanks

Gary

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Posted : 23/07/2020 10:03 am
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Noble Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@gary-j

"If I could get it right I will have an aircraft that can sit in the sun without warping." Have you concidered other materials? Perhaps PETG?

Posted : 23/07/2020 1:21 pm
gary.j
(@gary-j)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@towlerg

Hi Towerg, the aircraft I'm printing is a 75" Corsair and I think PETG is too flexible for that size plane without additional support. The reason for using ASA is it has a far high melting temperature and in addition is sandable, which makes it easier for painting. I have used PETG for smaller models and it works fine. If you know different then I am happy to be corrected.  I have considered printing the centre section separately as this takes the brunt of the loading when landing.  Thank you for help. 

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Posted : 23/07/2020 3:09 pm
snaslund
(@snaslund)
Eminent Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

This is a very popular topic on the 3D lab print forums.  This is a very difficult task.  3D lab print uses Prusa printers so their gcode should be pretty close.  Other slicers have problems with their STLs due to the very thin walls they use.  i have used Simplify3D which is the slicer they use.  I know that will cost you if you dont have it but that is probably the most viable way to make changes to their code.   I am wondering if ProtoPasta’s HTPLA might work for you.  It claims to print just like PLA with a much higher temperature resistance.  The limiting factor would probably be the inability to use tempering because of the thin structure.  If you crack this formula, everyone at 3D Lab prints will be impressed because this has been a long standing request over there.  Best of luck and let us know what you find.  Key is keeping a stable temperature around the part as much as possible.  Brims and enclosures will help I think.

 

Posted : 23/07/2020 7:20 pm
snaslund
(@snaslund)
Eminent Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

Also,if your slicer is removing structure it is probably because it is less than one perimeter wide.  If you have a .4 nozzle, your slicer might be removing anything that is smaller in the STL file.  Depending on the slicer there may be a rule that tells it to use at least one perimeter for extremely small objects.

Posted : 23/07/2020 7:24 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: ASA Not printing level.

I believe you will find that the STL's are designed to be used with S3D or  CURA...   as far as I understand, the STL's describe only the surfaces, with no thickness. 
Cura can handle this, but most slicers struggle!

 

regards Joan... 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 23/07/2020 8:35 pm
snaslund
(@snaslund)
Eminent Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@joantabb

Their selected slicer is S3D.  You are correct that an STL describes a surface but for 3D printing that surface must be manifold meaning it must enclose a space.  If the enclosed space is less than the extrusion width i.e. .40mm, many slicers ignore it.  Also, the structures of these planes is extremely complex with a ton of internal custom supports so a lot of slicers choke on these files.  Their official position at 3dlabprint is to use their gcode on Prusa printers or S3D.  They also mention that Cura or MatterControl MAY work with some tweaking.  There also seems to be limited luck with anything other than PLA due to warping or bed adhesion failure since these parts tend to be tall and thin with little bed contact.  Im thinking an HTPLA would get you closest to PLA print properties with better heat resistance.  Another filament I plan to try on the new Mk3 is the Colorfab nGen which seems to have the right properties.

Posted : 24/07/2020 5:05 am
snaslund
(@snaslund)
Eminent Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

When I used Cura it missed structures completely.  MatterControl worked better but there were still differences in some structure.  S3D worked much better than both since that was the slicer they prototyped with.  Their planes are great but certainly a printer torture test.  They are the most demanding parts I have ever printed. Definitely not the first things you want to print.  If you print these cleanly you truly have your gear dialed in...and thats with PLA.  Any other materials would make you an instant hero on their forums for sure.

Posted : 24/07/2020 5:11 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: ASA Not printing level.

Stephan at CNC Kitchen did an article on 3D printed airplanes,   a while ago, and that covered Cura Setup... 

Maybe there will be some Info in there, that will help you   

there are several episodes, I only linked to one. 

 

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 24/07/2020 12:06 pm
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Noble Member
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@gary-j

"If you know different then I am happy to be corrected" Sorry, I know jack about printed 'planes.

Posted : 24/07/2020 2:42 pm
gary.j
(@gary-j)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@joantabb

Hi Joan, 

Many thanks, I printed the Spitfire a couple of years back with PLA which was a doddle.  ASA Filament as we know is far less tolerant and suffers shrinkage and is affected considerably by temperature differences when printing.  The added problem with printing aircraft with a single perimeter is the temperature has to be increased above the recommended temperature range by 10 to 20 degrees to improve adhesion so the single perimeter doesn't separate between layers when under stress in the air. By printing a Brim the height of the wing sections the lifting at the leading and trailing edges has reduced substantially.  Thie issue occurs in the first 5 to 10 layers so I'm going to play with the bed and nozzle temperatures to find the best combination, hopefully 🙂

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Posted : 24/07/2020 8:02 pm
gary.j
(@gary-j)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: ASA Not printing level.

@towlerg

By the way things are going neither do I 🙂

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Posted : 24/07/2020 8:05 pm
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