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Frank
(@frank-14)
Eminent Member
Titan Aero on a MK3

I know,

I have a bad case of "upgrade-itis"
Its a bit soon to ask, but has anybody already experimented with a higher performing hotend like the Titan Aero, or even "just" the volcano ?
Lets forget about the liquid cooled Titan for a bit, that takes it too far for me

Frank.

Posted : 02/01/2018 4:24 pm
rajr2
(@rajr2)
Active Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

What makes you think the Titan Aero performs better?

The simple design of the MK3 extruder with its Bondtech gears is the best extruder I've ever used.
IMO replacing it with a Titan Aero is a downgrade.

Posted : 02/01/2018 4:29 pm
Frank
(@frank-14)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

Just got a reply from E3D themselves. No place for Pinda.....

Posted : 02/01/2018 5:28 pm
jmsaltzman
(@jmsaltzman)
Trusted Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

I'm curious about the Volcano for fast/big/rough prints, but I'm pretty busy and am waiting for the system to stabilize wrt firmware and Einsy-mounted OctoPi. It helps that I can't find 24V 1.75mm Volcano "Eruption" (srsly guys?) kits anywhere 😉

Posted : 02/01/2018 6:25 pm
Breacor3D
(@breacor3d)
Eminent Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

I have the titan aero on my maker select v2 (waiting on my mk3). It is constantly grinding filament due to the one-sided gear. I have done everything from esteps, to different nozzles, and lots of calibration, and it seems that no matter how much cooling there is on the Heatsink, it will grind PLA/ABS quite quickly. I havent had a successful PLA print in three months. I absolutely cannot wait for my MK3 this month.

Prusa MK4. Atomic Slate Gray CfPETG partsPrusa Mini+ Kit (Atomic Perfect Purple) with Bondtech IFS and Revo MicroVoron 2.4 350*350*500Voron Trident 250Voron Trident 350Ender3BeltKit (heavily modified)CR10s Pro V2 (heavily modified)Many other small upgrades for these printers as tinkering…

Posted : 03/01/2018 4:27 am
Chris
(@chris-16)
Reputable Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3


I have the titan aero on my maker select v2 (waiting on my mk3). It is constantly grinding filament due to the one-sided gear. I have done everything from esteps, to different nozzles, and lots of calibration, and it seems that no matter how much cooling there is on the Heatsink, it will grind PLA/ABS quite quickly. I havent had a successful PLA print in three months. I absolutely cannot wait for my MK3 this month.

put the original extruder back on and use this https://store.micro-swiss.com/collections/wanhao-i3/products/all-metal-hotend-with-slotted-cooling-block-for-wanhao-i3 it is a huge upgrade for the wanhao and makes temps up to 260 possible.

Posted : 07/01/2018 10:45 pm
Breacor3D
(@breacor3d)
Eminent Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3



I have the titan aero on my maker select v2 (waiting on my mk3). It is constantly grinding filament due to the one-sided gear. I have done everything from esteps, to different nozzles, and lots of calibration, and it seems that no matter how much cooling there is on the Heatsink, it will grind PLA/ABS quite quickly. I havent had a successful PLA print in three months. I absolutely cannot wait for my MK3 this month.

put the original extruder back on and use this https://store.micro-swiss.com/collections/wanhao-i3/products/all-metal-hotend-with-slotted-cooling-block-for-wanhao-i3 it is a huge upgrade for the wanhao and makes temps up to 260 possible.

It works from time to time for a couple days, then grinds. I will probably take the duet wifi, the steppers and put them towards a dbot. I actually had the microswiss hotend on the stock block, then the "MELTzi" board happened and i spent too much money.

Prusa MK4. Atomic Slate Gray CfPETG partsPrusa Mini+ Kit (Atomic Perfect Purple) with Bondtech IFS and Revo MicroVoron 2.4 350*350*500Voron Trident 250Voron Trident 350Ender3BeltKit (heavily modified)CR10s Pro V2 (heavily modified)Many other small upgrades for these printers as tinkering…

Posted : 07/01/2018 11:06 pm
Chris
(@chris-16)
Reputable Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3




I have the titan aero on my maker select v2 (waiting on my mk3). It is constantly grinding filament due to the one-sided gear. I have done everything from esteps, to different nozzles, and lots of calibration, and it seems that no matter how much cooling there is on the Heatsink, it will grind PLA/ABS quite quickly. I havent had a successful PLA print in three months. I absolutely cannot wait for my MK3 this month.

put the original extruder back on and use this https://store.micro-swiss.com/collections/wanhao-i3/products/all-metal-hotend-with-slotted-cooling-block-for-wanhao-i3 it is a huge upgrade for the wanhao and makes temps up to 260 possible.

It works from time to time for a couple days, then grinds. I will probably take the duet wifi, the steppers and put them towards a dbot. I actually had the microswiss hotend on the stock block, then the "MELTzi" board happened and i spent too much money.

i was having troubles with the micro sd slot on mine, so i bought a new board. and then i started using an octopi before the board was delivered so I had the board just sitting around so i installed a mosfet for the bed heater circuit and called it good. i think my brother has the meltzi since i gave him the printer when i got my MK3

Posted : 07/01/2018 11:21 pm
ceryen.t
(@ceryen-t)
Eminent Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3


What makes you think the Titan Aero performs better?

The simple design of the MK3 extruder with its Bondtech gears is the best extruder I've ever used.
IMO replacing it with a Titan Aero is a downgrade.

Why do you consider the Titan Aero to be a downgrade? Is it because it has a more complicated design? If so, that's not how extruders should be judged, the Titan Aero is more complicated for good reasons.

The gearing allows the Titan Aero to have more steps per mm, which allows for more precise extrusion. The Prusa extruder with Bondtech gears can only do 140 steps per mm, while the Titan Aero can do 418.5 steps per mm with the same 1.8 degree stepper motor. PJR has stated that the Prusa extruder with Bondtech gears may actually have insufficient steps per mm to print at less than 0.1 mm layer height.

The gearing allows more torque to be put on the filament, which matters when printing with a small nozzle (0.15 mm). If you don't need the extra torque, you can use a smaller motor instead, which decreases the weight of the X-axis carriage, improving print quality and print speed.

The whole stack is shorter, which increases available print height. The shorter filament path handles flexible filaments better.

Posted : 04/02/2018 3:51 pm
martin.m25
(@martin-m25)
Estimable Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

Its a bit soon to ask, but has anybody already experimented with a higher performing hotend like the Titan Aero, or even "just" the volcano ?

I am still waiting for my MK3, which - judging from the list of problems people seem to have - is a good thing, as it gives time to PR to iron out bugs (mine is due in March hopefully). I am interested in a more throughput version, means volcano. The Aero looks nice, should be combineable with the volcano hotend.
But for the beginning at least, I'll probably be glad if the MK3 prints at all, without layer shifts and such.

- Martin

- Martin

Posted : 04/02/2018 4:02 pm
stoofer
(@stoofer)
Estimable Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

I have a volcano on a Delta printer. It works. I don't want one on the Mk3, I don't really see the point in buying a relatively expensive printer capable of good detail then sticking a Volcano on it and running it as fast as you can, negating much of the advantage of the printer.

Changing back and forth is also more of a hassle than you might expect. I think if I wanted a volcano on an i3, I'd go find a cheap clone and buy the e3D upgrade kit.

Posted : 04/02/2018 5:23 pm
Kwaad2
(@kwaad2)
Honorable Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

What I would like to see is either...
A. a Titan Aero mod with a bondtech (or similar)
B. a Gear-Reduction for the extruder on the MK3.

I hadn't thought of that, and I find that upsetting actually.

I plan on keeping a .15mm nozzle on it. I've been thinking that with the direct drive bondtech I might have issues... I hadn't even thought of the steps. It sounds like I will either need to downgrade the feed-rates, and get a Titan Aero/aqua, or, keep the standard hotend, and just accept never printing less than .1-ish mm layers.

Someone with better mechanical design skills than me!!! Design a gear-reduction hot-end!!! (I'm trying to learn how to do Fusion 360 stuff, but... Yeah, I'm new to it, and the complexity is crazy.)

Hi, I'm Sean. I used to work on CNC machines.
I try to not make mistakes, but the decision is YOURS.
Please feel free to donate to my filament/maintance fund.

Posted : 05/02/2018 5:37 am
Mabau
(@mabau)
Trusted Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

I am indeed working on an extruder overhaul, but will do it completely by myself after regarding the Titan aqua as not sufficient enough (and too expensive):

The bondtech gear with the 1.8° stepper has a resolution of 140 steps per mm. However, did you thought of the transmission you need when printing with 0.15 mm nozzle at 0.05 mm layer height?
Assuming we print very small parts with the shortest filament patz extruded possible - a cylinder with the diameter of the nozzle and the height of the layer height. If one step should extrude such a cylinder:

You would need an extruder resolution of 2722 steps per mm filament! That would make a gear-ratio of nearly 20:1... .
Taking a 0.1 mm nozzle would push this to 6125 steps per mm filament and a nearly 44:1 gear-ratio... .

Well. It sounds difficult and it is. But it is not immpossible as NEMA 17 with gearboxes at 50:1 are commercially available without problems. Maybe i will give it atry on the long run. You then also have a hell of torque, enough for the 0.1mm nozzle I assume 😈
First I need my MK3 Update... .

Posted : 05/02/2018 2:46 pm
kenneth.s5
(@kenneth-s5)
New Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

Why, i have a CR-10 with a Titan Aero installed. It`s a good upgrade for this printer. But the extruder gear is NOT the best, not impressed with the Titan design of the gears. Difficult to load fillament at times, and the motor from e3d was to weak to drive the fillament, grinding. After i mounted a bigger motor i have no problems.

I Got my MK3 a Week ago, with 40 hours of printning and counting, and im more than happy with the standart extruder in it. It just eats all fillament i put in to it. With perfect prints as result. Even flexible fillament.

Very happy with my MK3.

Posted : 05/02/2018 11:12 pm
Kwaad2
(@kwaad2)
Honorable Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3


You would need an extruder resolution of 2722 steps per mm filament! That would make a gear-ratio of nearly 20:1... .
Taking a 0.1 mm nozzle would push this to 6125 steps per mm filament and a nearly 44:1 gear-ratio... .

Yeah, I'm not sure how to do the math on this, but I don't think it would be quite so extreme. Someone on here, has a mk3 hitting .05mm layer heights.

a 0.4mm standard nozzle is 0.13mm^2 while a 0.15mm nozzle is 0.018^2.

There's roughly 7.2222 on the smaller size. Assuming the 0.4mm nozzle could actually print with a .05mm layer, a simple 8:1 transmission should suffice. I don't know if the printer could handle it, but .02 could be done with about a 20:1

Did I mess my math up anywhere?

Hi, I'm Sean. I used to work on CNC machines.
I try to not make mistakes, but the decision is YOURS.
Please feel free to donate to my filament/maintance fund.

Posted : 06/02/2018 1:58 am
Mabau
(@mabau)
Trusted Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

Did I mess my math up anywhere?

No, you are right. We just have differrent assumptions: Yours is the success printing with 0.4mm at 0.05mm layer height. Mine was completely theoretically thinking of one full step needed for the extrusion of a blob with the nozzle's diameter and the layer height.

Of course I did not take into account the behaviour of the filament as a tension dampener between the steps. I also did not take into account the microstepping feature. I just wanted to do some math 😀

In fact, I managed to print with a 0.25 mm nozzle at a variable layer height between 0.07 and 0.1 mm. But the rate of success was at about 20%.

Posted : 06/02/2018 2:36 am
Petehagoras
(@petehagoras)
Eminent Member
Re: Titan Aero on a MK3

in my opinion the option of using a titan aero is absolutely reasonable. I have a descent amount of requests for printed parts in flexible filaments, especially TPE, and thats (IMO) an absolute hell to print. the large distance between the feeder and the nozzle is a real downside when it comes to the printing of 1.75mm flex-filaments. Thumbs up for the aero at this point. The bondtech extruder of the MK3 is an absolute winner when it comes to consistent feeding. On the other hand a transmissioned feeder just gives you more power on less load, plus more precision.

Long story short:

I have an aero by hand from an outsourced printer, and i'm seriously thinking of marry the bondtech feeder, with the aero, but this will take some time to figure everything out (...and i just interrupted another failed TPE print)

the idea is:

use the bondtech system and pair it with the gears and bearings of the Aero. Then feed it directly to the alu-heatsink-nozzle combination. Filament as much guided as possible. As this will turn out quite custom made, some new constructed and printed parts are necessary, integrate a holder for the PINDA probe shouldn't be an issue to add. And of course, replace the Aero Fan with the Noctua Fan. Finally we make everything compatible with the MK3 design to ensure there are restrictions in building volume...well that sounds like task to me and it will consume a valuable amont of time.

...but it could be awsome.

Posted : 23/02/2018 12:31 am
clemens.w
(@clemens-w)
New Member
RE: Titan Aero on a MK3

Hi,

i cant get my e3d titan aero working on my prusa mk3! could someone please just share the .hex code. dunno what i am missing, but the lcd screen shows only symbols -> i did use the PrusaReseach board in arduino.

much appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Posted : 10/02/2020 11:41 am
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