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jason.c34
(@jason-c34)
New Member
Might cancel order and get the MK2S

The MK3 would be my first printer, but some of the topics here and elsewhere are making me reconsider my order. The reliability and quality issues that seem to be plaguing the MK3 don't seem to affect the MK2. I believe I may be better off cancelling my MK3 order and getting the MK2S and saving a couple hundred dollars which could be put into filament.

The biggest driver for reconsidering is what seems to be buggy and incomplete firmware. For the $200 price difference, this is not something an end user should have to worry about. I don't have the time nor inclination to test different firmware to get the most out of this printer. That is something that should be completed at the Alpha/Beta stage of development. How does a piece of hardware enter final release with these questions unanswered?

I chose Prusa based on the reputation of the MK2. Was I mistaken?

Posted : 28/03/2018 12:39 am
Olef
 Olef
(@olef)
Honorable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

The Mk3 is a leading edge machine with many features that are yet to reach their final form and potential. It is a tinkerers machine and a great deal of time and effort can be put into optimising its output both in the hardware and software aspects, and anyone who takes part in this is having in some small way a part in its development.

It has been noted elsewhere that the Mk3 is a machine barely out of prototype stage. It is not a finished "press button to operate" appliance. Perhaps come back in a year or so when Prusa and the community have polished it to its peak.

Posted : 28/03/2018 12:53 am
eric.k4
(@eric-k4)
Reputable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


The Mk3 is a leading edge machine with many features that are yet to reach their final form and potential. It is a tinkerers machine and a great deal of time and effort can be put into optimising its output both in the hardware and software aspects, and anyone who takes part in this is having in some small way a part in its development.

It has been noted elsewhere that the Mk3 is a machine barely out of prototype stage. It is not a finished "press button to operate" appliance. Perhaps come back in a year or so when Prusa and the community have polished it to its peak.

noted elsewhere? like the home page? all these things should of been figured out before the announcement. a few small issues are ok, but some obvious ones that would be cough by simple QA should of been resolved long before it shipped. it feels like a rushed machine, kick-starter like.

i'm sure they'll fix what they can fix eventually but it's taking quite a few releases to get there so far.

Posted : 28/03/2018 6:01 am
JuanCholo
(@juancholo)
Reputable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

get the MK2S.

the MK3 has months of issues and parts changes to resolve issues.
as an example right now soft rubber filament will not work in the MK3 from prusa while the mk2s can handle it no problem.

right now my MK3 is basically useless and it will be going back in the box to be replaced with another MK2S to go right next to my old machine.
i do not have the time to sit there week after week taking the MK3 apart over and over to replace problems with the extruder and X axis parts.

the print quality of the MK2S is currently superior to the MK3. the MK2S is also capable of .35 fast resolution and handles under .10 better then the mk3 because of all kinds of extruder /firmware issues.

i have already rebuilt my bran new MK3 with new X axis parts that did nothing to solve the issues i have.

i am beyond disappointed at how this went with the MK3 release.

so if you get a MK3 now it will be able to handle about 3 types of filament without too much problems, but only at .2 resolution
at the same time the MK2S will handle more then 7 types at all levels of resolution.

in the future the MK3 will get better but why wait.

the MK3 removable bed is a great feature however everything else is not ready to go right now.

the current after market support for the MK2S is great also. you can add features to the MK2S from other authors. the MK3 is still new so the support is less and still being messed with all the time.

also i do not have good faith in the MK2.5 upgrade, it is also basically an alpha product with more issues then the original MK2s

“One does not simply use a picture as signature on Prusa forums”...
Posted : 28/03/2018 6:13 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey-2)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

There are no deal killer flaws in the firmware. Never have been. I have had my MK3 since November, running the very first firmware, and every one since. I have always been able to produce quality prints. No printer is perfect. However, Prusa is dedicated to improving, and continuously striving to perfect things.

Not sure about above poster, but I have printed PLA, ABS, PETG, TPU, TPE, metal fills, and carbon fiber fills with no problems. Just have to dial them in. I have also printed at 10um with no issues. I print at 30um primarily. I have accidentally used the MK2S 35um profiles on the MK3, and it printed great. You can create profiles for anything you want.

Only issue I occasionally run into is false outs on the filament sensor. Even then is is pretty much a non-issue as I just turn it off, as I rarely ever do prints where I am worried about running out of filament.

Posted : 28/03/2018 6:23 am
JuanCholo
(@juancholo)
Reputable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


There are no deal killer flaws in the firmware. Never have been. I have had my MK3 since November, running the very first firmware, and every one since. I have always been able to produce quality prints. No printer is perfect. However, Prusa is dedicated to improving, and continuously striving to perfect things.

* Live Z constantly changing
* PINDA problems
* step miscounts in the extruder
* Under extrusion bugs
* Fan errors when printing slow.
* filament sensor errors

I could keep going.. these are deal killers and while some might be fixed in the next firmware upgrade there are tons of more issues.

"I rarely ever do prints where I am worried about running out of filament."

when you have a machine that can run no problem for 50-120 hour prints. verse oh look it malfunctioned after 5 minutes or 3 hours, and it randomly layer shifts unless you shutoff features well there you go.

I've had my mk2s for a year, and my mk3 since January. the mk3 is a utter failure compared to the MK2s. i have projects running for weeks on my machines my mk2s has basically been constantly running for well over a month with no issues when i check it over for maintenance. Mk3 was chewing the belt after 5 hours of use.

it is fine to love the machine but it has problems and not a superior product at the moment for a 200$ price increase over a working proven machine.

at any rate I've said my peace enough times in regards to the MK3.

“One does not simply use a picture as signature on Prusa forums”...
Posted : 28/03/2018 6:34 am
HackMonkey
(@hackmonkey-2)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Sorry you have had so many problems. Maybe I am lucky, but I haven't had such issues. Most owners I have spoke to in person have not had such issues either. Suppose there is always going to be a few bum units. Same happens with all kinds of products. I know people with the same vehicle as me that have had problems, yet mine is flawless after 200k miles.

Posted : 28/03/2018 6:42 am
sean.h8
(@sean-h8)
Honorable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

All I'm going to say is this.

If you want a "production" machine, that does not require messing with, the occasional problems, etc, you should look at a *NON* OpenSource based printer. Open source is great, but it is almost ALWAYS buggy when new releases first come out.

Most of the printers that I think are best for that are around 4,000$ up to around 8,000$ (each). Those are the printers that I would trust to work without the need to do any "fixes" out of the box.

I went to MRRP2018, and I saw about 10 Mk3's. All 10 of them were running, and all 10 of them were spitting out parts left and right that were nearly flawless. I'm quite sure I saw ABS, ASA, and PETG in use. I was printing PLA, and the Prusa Booth was printing Prusament Galaxy Black PLA. (I need to get my fingers on some of that)

The majority of "hardware" issues are VERY limited. I had ZERO issues with my mk3's parts design/fit... _except an issue I don't blame myself or prusa for, which forced me to re-print a part to even assemble it) The ONLY issue I have is with the X-Axis Carriage. I can *NOT* print my 90A TPU. It's just not possible. (I've been told to slow it down... but I'm already at 3mm/s so... Yeah...) I did see some Flex PLA, that I think would print on it though, and I've heard of success with the firmer 98A TPU's. (at slow-ish 10mm/s speeds)
A member of this community is doing some *MAJOR* work to resolve this... and Make the Mk3 supreme!

The lion's share of software issues have been resolved in 3.2. I have been running an un-offical build for the past 2 weeks, and it fixed almost every "issue" everyone complains about. Not sure when it's coming, but when it does... ... I'm sure, some people still won't be impressed.

Here's my honest assesment for you.
Are you buying your printer to be your lover? (The same way a Lumberjack loves their chainsaw, the way a Chef loves their knife)
Something you plan to take care of, optimize, tweak, make better, and overall ENJOY your time with.

OR...

Are you buying your printer the same way a Company buys a Tool.
It's simply a way to make money. The unit that has the highest profit margins is the best, regardless of brand or color. All that matters is the profit.

If you want a lover... Get a Mk3.
If you want a Tool... Get a Mk2.

PS:
I have never had a layer shift that was not my fault. EDIT: And this was on OLD firmware... Before they fixed crash detection resume
I have never had First layer issues... ... Except when I did something... ... ... Yeah, I don't blame the printer for that. OE (Operator Error)
Filament sensor works fine with 90% of non-PETG materials... Just turn it off until they fix it... if they do. Mk2s *DOES NOT HAVE THIS EITHER*
I don't have under-extrusion bugs... OR OVER extrusion on my unoffical 3.2 firmware.
All my belts look fine... I have at LEAST 8 days of print time. (I think something I did reset this)

Hi, I'm Sean. I used to work on CNC machines.
I try to not make mistakes, but the decision is YOURS.
Please feel free to donate to my filament/maintance fund....
Posted : 28/03/2018 7:11 am
Zinga
(@zinga)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I've actually had quite a good experience with my Mk2.5 upgrade. Granted, I don't mind tinkering a bit or making minor firmware modifications. PINDA/Live Z problems aren't exactly new to the Mk3 either. In the beginning with my Mk2S I struggled to get consistent first layers across prints and for whatever reason it seemed to change if I printed from SD or through Octoprint. That problem seemed to just go away when I gave Octoprint another chance. Another complication was that the first heated bed I received was warped in a way mesh bed leveling couldn't compensate for, even with the standard bed correction adjustments. I'd have a perfect layer in the center and the nozzle would hit the bed (or at least get close enough to scar the PEI) when it printed on the left side. Prusa support (live chat) was great and they sent me a replacement bed. The second one was also a bit warped, but the hyperfine bed leveling firmware mod was able to give me a perfect first layer across almost the entire bed (and a little mod of my own fixed the rest).

I haven't had any inconsistent live Z issues, and the regular bed level correct gives me a great, consistent first layer across the bed. I'm guessing the steel sheet helps smooth over the PCB's warping, and/or the PINDA reading the top of the bed directly instead of probe points. The Bondtech gears and new extruder have been great. On the Mk2S I'd sometimes have an issue loading filament where it wouldn't go into the PTFE tube below the gear. Also, I don't have to mess around with the idler tension. It seems like I can't go wrong as long as I don't set it to something extreme. The filament sensor hasn't given me any problems so far, although I haven't used a wide variety of filament. I'm currently about 40 hours into a project using translucent orange PETG and I haven't had any false runouts triggered; Prusa's black PETG hasn't been a problem either.

That being said, the firmware could definitely use some work. It's usable in its current state, but it doesn't have the more polished feel the Mk2S did. The Mk2.5 was still on an RC release when my upgrade arrived, and I had to use the firmware in debug mode just to get it to print (I have to modify the firmware because i have a PT100 and Haribo frame). Thankfully, linear advance is working fine for me while using Octoprint, even at high speeds.

Prusa has a lot of these printers running constantly. Major problems are likely the result of lemon parts, user error, or you're using it in a way Prusa isn't. The fact that plenty of people aren't having major issues tells me that while individual printers may have problems, the overall design is solid. The people having problems now should see improvements as the firmware matures and revisions are made to the 3D printed parts. It's usually understood that being an early adopter comes with some level of risk whether you're buying a car, video game, appliance, etc. I didn't get into 3D printing until well after the Mk2S release, but I imagine the Mk2 release was similar: some problems in the beginning for some users that were (at least mostly) solved later on.

</ramble> 🙄

Posted : 28/03/2018 8:09 am
stefan.a5
(@stefan-a5)
Active Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I'm trying to get my MK3 to print in a decent quality and it's absolutely not possible.
I sold my MK2S, which almost printed perfectly.

I can't use my MK3 because of the bad quality. Support is pretty useless. They won't believe me, that this is a problem with my machine.
Even my tevo tarantula prints in a much better quality. Not as good as the MK2S, but way better than the MK3.

If you wan't a machine that prints really good: buy a MK2S.
If you wan't to play: buy a MK3. If you're lucky, you get one of the good machines.

...
Posted : 28/03/2018 8:18 am
beau.m
(@beau-m)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Just read this entire thread-

Two days ago I finally got my printer to make a "soso" print without issues, I was overjoyed that i seemed to finally fix my problem.

Last night while printing, it threw itself off it's axis so hard I can't calibrate it, the Z is so far off any self test sends it driving the extruder into the bed, and after attempting to tighten everything, it still has the issue, along with odd grinding noises I'm afraid are permanent damage I won't be able to fix...

As some of you have said in this thread and in many others, this machine feels rushed, and for a person like myself that has little to no time to "tinker" with the machine (and would rather have a printer that's actually able to print something without me having to babysit it), I'm afraid I'll have to try to return, or put it up and wait for SOLID solutions to come from Prusa themselves regarding these issues, which seems clear they have not addressed.

It makes me very sad, I'm new to this hobby and have dreamed of starting for years, and to go headlong into it with this particular machine with issue after issue, has been VERY disheartening.

Beau.

Posted : 28/03/2018 3:24 pm
Miquel Adell
(@miquel-adell)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

@stefan.a5, could you post a picture of some bad quality print?
the MK3 is my first decent printer (the past one being a bad clone) and I'm quite happy with the quality of the prints but I don't know if I should expect more.

An example:
https://www.thingiverse.com/make:462558

Posted : 28/03/2018 3:40 pm
stefan.a5
(@stefan-a5)
Active Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


@stefan.a5, could you post a picture of some bad quality print?
the MK3 is my first decent printer (the past one being a bad clone) and I'm quite happy with the quality of the prints but I don't know if I should expect more.

An example:
https://www.thingiverse.com/make:462558

Here: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/tired-and-indignant-t14872-s60.html#p71752
and here: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/tired-and-indignant-t14872-s70.html#p71792

And i would not be happy with your print quality. The MK2S had never a problem to print a straight wall. See here:
The stringing should not be a problem. You can get rid of these if you play with the retraction distance and retraction speed.

/edit:
This is from a Creality CR-10 and if you zoom in you can't see the same lines as you got: https://www.thingiverse.com/make:450551

...
Posted : 28/03/2018 4:16 pm
nolan.l
(@nolan-l)
Eminent Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

The MK3 is a great machine. A lot of the problems plaguing people are self inflicted by not properly assembling things but then they see issues online and just want to blame the firmware for everything.

People complaining about first layer issues when you look at their prints and its obvious the z height is off. People complaining about poor print quality when they aren't using the correct extrusion multiplier. People are complaining about layer skips without properly understanding belt tensions or are over tightening the bearing holders. Seriously I had a local person bitch to no end how garbage this machine was and when I went and looked at it he'd tightened the x carriage back plate fully on and was squishing the bearings. Loosened that and its night and day difference. There are so many spots on this printer where you aren't supposed to tighten things down hard, just lightly snug but people don't understand/realize that and then it causes other issues.

There are some legitimate small firmware issues out there but the fact that a huge chunk of owners are printing happily without issue and yet certain people seemed to be plagued with a laundry list of issues should be a clear indication that build quality and attention to detail is a large factor.

...
Posted : 28/03/2018 4:16 pm
beau.m
(@beau-m)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


The MK3 is a great machine. A lot of the problems plaguing people are self inflicted by not properly assembling things but then they see issues online and just want to blame the firmware for everything.

People complaining about first layer issues when you look at their prints and its obvious the z height is off. People complaining about poor print quality when they aren't using the correct extrusion multiplier. People are complaining about layer skips without properly understanding belt tensions or are over tightening the bearing holders. Seriously I had a local person bitch to no end how garbage this machine was and when I went and looked at it he'd tightened the x carriage back plate fully on and was squishing the bearings. Loosened that and its night and day difference. There are so many spots on this printer where you aren't supposed to tighten things down hard, just lightly snug but people don't understand/realize that and then it causes other issues.

There are some legitimate small firmware issues out there but the fact that a huge chunk of owners are printing happily without issue and yet certain people seemed to be plagued with a laundry list of issues should be a clear indication that build quality and attention to detail is a large factor.

If each individual post on this forum and other forums were isolated issues with their respective printers, then I could see you point- however the issues people are posting about are very widespread, and more and more people are starting to figure out the MK3 was pushed out before it was finished.

The images above with the Benchy, should NEVER happen with a printer that's supposed to be an upgrade to the original, because printing a wall is something ANY printer should be able to do, but the MK3 can't?

The firmware issues are not only bigger than you might think, they're only part of the problem- such as my current issue of the XYZ axis constantly coming out of alignment, clogging in the motor/extruder, first layer issues- all of these should not be something you worry about having to fix every 5 minutes with a printer that's not only $800-$1000, but that's brand new.

Forgive me if i sound entitled, but I expected better.

Posted : 28/03/2018 4:45 pm
heroeant
(@heroeant)
Active Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


The MK3 is a great machine. A lot of the problems plaguing people are self inflicted by not properly assembling things but then they see issues online and just want to blame the firmware for everything.

People complaining about first layer issues when you look at their prints and its obvious the z height is off. People complaining about poor print quality when they aren't using the correct extrusion multiplier. People are complaining about layer skips without properly understanding belt tensions or are over tightening the bearing holders. Seriously I had a local person bitch to no end how garbage this machine was and when I went and looked at it he'd tightened the x carriage back plate fully on and was squishing the bearings. Loosened that and its night and day difference. There are so many spots on this printer where you aren't supposed to tighten things down hard, just lightly snug but people don't understand/realize that and then it causes other issues.

There are some legitimate small firmware issues out there but the fact that a huge chunk of owners are printing happily without issue and yet certain people seemed to be plagued with a laundry list of issues should be a clear indication that build quality and attention to detail is a large factor.

I disagree, Prusa dropped the ball on the MK3, you can't really blame people on assembly mistakes when there were issues with the hardware provided on the printer, printed parts, faulty power supplies, wrong smooth rods. All that can cause a lot of printer errors and bad quality on prints.
Even the new version of the STLs for the printed parts weren't good enough.
I have both, and the MK2 is my to go printer because I know it will print good and I won't have issues.

...
Posted : 28/03/2018 4:46 pm
fulcrum
(@fulcrum)
Trusted Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


The MK3 is a great machine. A lot of the problems plaguing people are self inflicted by not properly assembling things but then they see issues online and just want to blame the firmware for everything.

People complaining about first layer issues when you look at their prints and its obvious the z height is off. People complaining about poor print quality when they aren't using the correct extrusion multiplier. People are complaining about layer skips without properly understanding belt tensions or are over tightening the bearing holders. Seriously I had a local person bitch to no end how garbage this machine was and when I went and looked at it he'd tightened the x carriage back plate fully on and was squishing the bearings. Loosened that and its night and day difference. There are so many spots on this printer where you aren't supposed to tighten things down hard, just lightly snug but people don't understand/realize that and then it causes other issues.

There are some legitimate small firmware issues out there but the fact that a huge chunk of owners are printing happily without issue and yet certain people seemed to be plagued with a laundry list of issues should be a clear indication that build quality and attention to detail is a large factor.

So, if what you state is true and people are screwing up the assembly, why are there a number of members of this forum reporting issues having already owned an MK2(s)? Presumably, those members already know how to assembly a Prusa machine and get it printing great (by their own statements). So, they should also know how to assembly an MK3 without making the mistakes that you claim.

The truth is that there, undoubtedly, are machines out there that print "perfectly". By Prusa's own publications, they've shipped ~8000 systems. There are also systems that are just no-good. Firmware issues aside, as those are ultimately fixable, there are some real HW issues. Some can and probably will be fixed by reprinting better parts. But there seem to be others that are much harder. The warped beds and the PSUs burning out on 110v come to mind. Of course, you can contact support and ask for replacements. However, in those cases, the onus is on you to prove it's bad and when you do you have to wait for some time for the replacement to arrive.

I think the point some people are trying to make is that for the price, reputation, and touted quality, the MK3 should not be exhibiting the issues that it does even in the numbers that have been reported.

Personally, I think that threads like this are made worse and ultimately end up extremely polarized due to the lack of communication from Prusa, themselves. In rare cases, Prusa devs and support will chime in on the threads but most of the time, it's radio silence and that just contributes to the situation. If this is a machine still in development, and you are expected to tinker, and you are part of its refinement process, as some members are saying, then I would have expected Prusa to be an active part of these forums. Being in active discussions with your userbase about issues would speed up the fix, as well. It's mind boggling why Prusa would not engage in an active and passionate community as this one.

Posted : 28/03/2018 5:10 pm
nolan.l
(@nolan-l)
Eminent Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If each individual post on this forum and other forums were isolated issues with their respective printers, then I could see you point- however the issues people are posting about are very widespread, and more and more people are starting to figure out the MK3 was pushed out before it was finished.

The images above with the Benchy, should NEVER happen with a printer that's supposed to be an upgrade to the original, because printing a wall is something ANY printer should be able to do, but the MK3 can't?

The firmware issues are not only bigger than you might think, they're only part of the problem- such as my current issue of the XYZ axis constantly coming out of alignment, clogging in the motor/extruder, first layer issues- all of these should not be something you worry about having to fix every 5 minutes with a printer that's not only $800-$1000, but that's brand new.

Forgive me if i sound entitled, but I expected better.

The above benchy looks like a machine that is having XY motion issues. Like I said before, maybe they overtightened the bearings, or the belt tension is wrong, or they over tightened the idler pulley.

Ringing is very easily caused by an axis that doesn't move easily. If you've ever pushed a heavy object it takes a lot of force initially to get it to move and then less after that. That makes it very jerky, 3d printers are the same.

If your having clogging issues in your motor/extruder then either your settings (temp/feedrate/retraction/extrusion multiplier) aren't right or you have the extruder gears overtightened. Or your filament is crap, the pla prusa sends isn't very good and its best to try a better brand.

...
Posted : 28/03/2018 5:47 pm
Bytor
(@bytor)
Estimable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S


Last night while printing, it threw itself off it's axis so hard I can't calibrate it, the Z is so far off any self test sends it driving the extruder into the bed, and after attempting to tighten everything, it still has the issue, along with odd grinding noises I'm afraid are permanent damage I won't be able to fix...

I've had this happen with both of my MK2S machines on a number of occasions since I bought them. No rhyme or reason to it. I'll print a number of items without issues and then the next print the nozzle goes crazy and buries itself into the bed. Hasn't happened yet on the last firmware... My point is that this is no unique to the MK3.

3D printing newbie - wanting to learn 😀 - 1st "printer" TIKO 3D
- 2nd PRUSA i3 MK2S with MMU v1
- 3rd PRUSA i3 MK2S
- 4th PRUSA i3 MK3 with MMU v2 on order...
Posted : 28/03/2018 6:09 pm
Bytor
(@bytor)
Estimable Member
Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I wonder if some of the print issues are due to using the wrong slic3r settings?

The reason I say this is because I had trouble with a couple prints on my MK3 that I sliced myself. The sample codes (Nefertiti, Benchy, Triceratops, frog) printed great. Then I tried to print a couple propellers for my son's school project (last minute) and I installed the latest version of Slic3r PE on my PC. I wasn't paying attention and just went through the defaults. Sliced the STL and hit print. Needless to say I wasn't impressed with what came off my machine.

About a week later a new driver package came out with an updated Slic3r PE. While installing I noticed there were 3 options for the Slic3r PE that could be installed and the default was set to MK2/S/MMU Single Extruder. Sure enough that was what I had installed instead of the the MK3 version (settings). When I resliced the propeller and reprinted it the quality was significantly improved. Coincidence? Maybe, I don't know... but I think its something that everyone who are complaining about print quality should look at. Maybe uninstall their current version and install the newest version making sure they pick the correct Slic3r version/settings.

3D printing newbie - wanting to learn 😀 - 1st "printer" TIKO 3D
- 2nd PRUSA i3 MK2S with MMU v1
- 3rd PRUSA i3 MK2S
- 4th PRUSA i3 MK3 with MMU v2 on order...
Posted : 28/03/2018 6:20 pm
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