Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...  

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I (outside of ABS) did not have any issues. Everything worked fine from start, I made 15+ prints and only one of them failed (a second one, because of my error in z calibration). And this is my first 3D Printer. I bought a kit.

People that don't have problems usually are busy printing 😉 So you hear mostly from those that have problems, even if that is a small %.

Nevertheless, I don't have any idea what is the ratio of happy / unhappy MK3 overs. So if you feel not convinced, you can wait couple month for the design to mature.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

"Think long think wrong." If your first thought is to cancel then cancel. I'm sure when the line for delivery gets shorter everyone behind you in delivery schedule won't mind the little bump up.

Neal

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I'll answer from a first time 3D printer owner and qualify with I've only ever seen 3D prints in pictures online, actual prints from Shapeways, my kid's school and the printed parts that came with the MK3... I was seriously considering cancelling my order and purchasing the Makergear M3 ID but as it is now I'm pretty happy with the MK3. From an assembly standpoint I've had more difficulty assembling toys for my kids on Christmas morning than I had putting this together. All calibration checks passed on the first try, maybe I got lucky and am now knocking on wood, and I've steadily been improving my print quality. I do get ghosting and ringing but being that I have nothing to compare to I'm reasonably satisfied, though I would prefer better quality I just don't know what's reasonable to expect. I'm at work and only have a couple of parts that I'm playing with to post pictures of. One is of PETG and I'm having issues getting it to print without being stringy but I'm learning the other is printed using the gray PLA that comes with the printer...

Bear in mind I've been 3D printing less than a week so I'm a complete novice...

Edit: In case you're wondering the parts were broken in half intentionally, they were printed as sacrificial parts so I can compare relative strengths, and overall understand what to reasonably expect from a strength standpoint.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I'll answer from a first time 3D printer owner and qualify with I've only ever seen 3D prints in pictures online, actual prints from Shapeways, my kid's school and the printed parts that came with the MK3... I was seriously considering cancelling my order and purchasing the Makergear M3 ID but as it is now I'm pretty happy with the MK3. From an assembly standpoint I've had more difficulty assembling toys for my kids on Christmas morning than I had putting this together. All calibration checks passed on the first try, maybe I got lucky and am now knocking on wood, and I've steadily been improving my print quality. I do get ghosting and ringing but being that I have nothing to compare to I'm reasonably satisfied, though I would prefer better quality I just don't know what's reasonable to expect. I'm at work and only have a couple of parts that I'm playing with to post pictures of. One is of PETG and I'm having issues getting it to print without being stringy but I'm learning the other is printed using the gray PLA that comes with the printer...

Bear in mind I've been 3D printing less than a week so I'm a complete novice...

Edit: In case you're wondering the parts were broken in half intentionally, they were printed as sacrificial parts so I can compare relative strengths, and overall understand what to reasonably expect from a strength standpoint.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EhJQhWFcfA0YgOVrqZH5KbMF4rkQ31cvQABNIwRw_Hu8lxafj8jVNqu9qML3DcvNKG5bjqPY5OPmOjIjH5J5RpvCp7lQDVDIFAmSYiuVZ9jHdT6Cw6gR-RwC5Cm9Z5LmoavQT-6J_r4=w1110-h1478-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iZMZpmHG5bRMvtGgMJ47dI5PtJxUrd51m9IdO3EM-u9giL2dAHs0Wbg4G8l6BC3FfaCRdZftucNix6gv8zhm7CBjj4RO1aMKbCwOFHWKMCXKjl3XNGUXpG8MSADBvANytzvzb_taAp4=w1110-h1478-no

PETG does not like when printed on small perimeters/surface. To solve this you have to reduce the speed drastically. Also check out the parameter in slc3r PE : Filament settings -> Cooling -> "Slow down if print layer time is bellow". My personal method in this case is to print another part with the same Z height or to print several copies at the same time (tip: if you are not sure about a dimension, print two or three at the same time with a slightly different dimension).

You can also try to increase the temp and deactivate/reduce the fan speed.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

Cancel or not?

Generally, asking other people to make up your opinion is a bad idea, as they're not in your shoes and they're not spending your money 😆

The MK3 as it is now is quite different than the magic advertisement from this summer. Yes, there are teething problems. Yes, some stuff does not work perfectly. Yes, there were bad parts being shipped and perhaps not enough QA. Yes, the board seems underpowered and requires rewriting firmware parts to squeeze some more performance from it. Yes, the silence from Prusa Research on the multiple problem topics so far is really annoying 🙂

However, you get:

- the new MK3 which will be the focus for some time (until the MK3S/MK4 appears... )
- a good design which sets the baseline for a lot of Chinese copies
- (generally) good quality and genuine components
- a good community forum with plenty of people sharing ideas on how to improve it
- great support
- good documentation
- a reprap design (which goes in line with the 3D printing mentality, IMHO)
- constant work on improvements

However, what most people seem to think is that buying a preassembled printer will magically solve all problems. It will not, this is still a quite complicated machine which will require calibration, understanding how it works, what goes wrong and how to fix it. It's still a tinkerer's area and requires patience and thought, no matter what the 3D printer companies try to tell you in order to make a purchase.

It's up to you to get a glass of your favorite hot/cold beverage and ponder on the above, weighing the pros/cons. If you're not sure about the hobby, you can always get a cheap Chinese printer (which will probably require even more tinkering to get in line) or resell the printer later on (considering the waiting queue, it'll be no problem to resell it).

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

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PETG does not like when printed on small perimeters/surface. To solve this you have to reduce the speed drastically. Also check out the parameter in slc3r PE : Filament settings -> Cooling -> "Slow down if print layer time is bellow". My personal method in this case is to print another part with the same Z height or to print several copies at the same time (tip: if you are not sure about a dimension, print two or three at the same time with a slightly different dimension).

You can also try to increase the temp and deactivate/reduce the fan speed.

That's excellent advice, this is for a bike phone mount so I need it to be sturdy, hence the attempt at PETG. I'm tweaking the slot to accept the topeak adapter so printing multiples would be a good thing. Not to hijack the thread too much but can you help quantify drastically, at least ballpark, 50%????

Thanks for the advice...

Back to the OP, as was said in a later post, I saw MK3's selling for around 1K on Ebay so figured if I was really unhappy I could quickly unload it on Ebay for break even or mild loss if I really wanted. As was already said better communication with regard to issues would go a long way...

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

To read some positive feedback :
https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/search?q=prusa+mk3&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

That's excellent advice, this is for a bike phone mount so I need it to be sturdy, hence the attempt at PETG. I'm tweaking the slot to accept the topeak adapter so printing multiples would be a good thing. Not to hijack the thread too much but can you help quantify drastically, at least ballpark, 50%????

Thanks for the advice...

Back to the OP, as was said in a later post, I saw MK3's selling for around 1K on Ebay so figured if I was really unhappy I could quickly unload it on Ebay for break even or mild loss if I really wanted. As was already said better communication with regard to issues would go a long way...

On a part like this go down to 60% (on the MK3 screen using the knob)

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

Just thought i would post my thoughts, since im in same boat as OP awaiting my printer, watching this beta tester launch roll out. While i can agree this launch is not exactly what was originally sold to potential buyers in the announcements/marketing starting last summer(ive been monitoring prusa social media and forums for 6 months as i made my decision on which printer to buy). I learned long ago not to believe any companies marketing even reputable companies, and i think all marketing should be taken with a grain of salt. Due diligence is always on the purchaser IMO, and anyone thinking a new design was going to have a buttery smooth launch was fooling themselves and not thinking it through.

As far as i can tell customer support is amazing, people have gotten taken care of even at 3AM Prusa time zone time sometimes. Support is a non issue IMO, if you have a legit issue and need something i have 100% faith Prusa will provide support.

Of course there are those that believe Prusa should be answering these forums posts of issues and are upset that there is no official response to alot of them. Im not one of these people, Prusa has a preferred way to get support(live chat, email) from them which is not the forums, and therefore they do not spend all day on the forums answering posts, and IMO thats ok as long as people can easily get the support they need.

Could there be better communication? sure there could i think in 99% of cases there could always be better communication, but is the current level of communication cause for concern? IMO no.

Im also going into this eyes wide open, even though this is my first 3d printer i am aware through my research into it that any 3d printer under $1k is a tool you will need to tinker with from time to time to keep running well, requiring both maintenance and tweaking/upgrading as time goes on. Having a good electronics and mechanical background this does not bother me and im excited more than any other emotion to get started tweaking this thing when i finally get it. Im viewing this as a learning experience more than anything else. And hoping over time i can make it into a workhorse like the Mk2/s was widely known to be.

If you need a printer to run all the time right off the bat no issues at all like in a production/commercial environment you are likely better off going with a time proven design $3-4k professional level printer from a good manufacturer. Im ok spending 1k and making the tweaks myself to fine tune it as time goes on and better designs are tweaked/made by Prusa/users.

Just my .02c, like alot of things in life its all about metering your expectations to avoid being dissapointed

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I'm waiting for my MK3 kit to arrive and won't be cancelling my order anytime soon. I have owned a 3D printer for the last 2 years now and have made several mods to it (A Velleman K8400 Vertex), so I have a good idea of what can go wrong and how to go about fixing it.

I opted for the Prusa MK3 over other printers such as the CR10 or a "toms 3d dolly clone" as I can see the design improvements are game changing. What gives me confidence that Prusa will deliver is that their products are always being refined and improved. There are nearly daily commits to the software github repositories, support appears to be active 24/7 on live chat and they will replace parts which fail under warranty. I doubt any Chinese seller will be that forthcoming.

Josef has been very open about some of the issues faced and they do have a track record of fixing these problems. They know they need to iron out the bugs and to ship product out to customers in a shorter time period.

On top of PR support - there are the users. A lot of mods, fixes and improvements come from the community. With the sheer number of users comes better community support. Of course none of this matters if your expectations and budget for this "hobby" are different to mine 🙂

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

Going to be short and sweet. Cancel it unless you want to have to fix / rebuild it all. It's not ready for release - give it 6 months, maybe then and that's just the truth and I have one - Ordered Oct 5th and received it a few weeks ago, assembly was easy but the prints are not good at all. The machine works but that is where the good stops. Plus some of the issues the printer has will not be fixible via a magic firmware and even then if is is fixed (hidden) you will be printing MK2S speeds on a MK3 body and that's the cold hard truth like it or not.

Hell I have a perfectly built kit, with upgraded Misumi rods and bearings - I will be happy to sell it to anyone that must have it. It prints fine if you lower the speed to 60% or less on the LCD. IF anyone is interested let me know! 🙂

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I has the pre built printer delivered 28th December, 1st 3d printer ever.

Out of the box it printed well enough but I have spent some time calibrating it and trying different temps for filament and am more than happy with it - yes there is a learning curve and I have updated the firmware with each new release (currently on RC5). The prints continue to impress me and must say I'm more than happy with it. I purchased Simplify 3D and learned to use that as its support generation and visual feedback of printing is great.

I knew no 3D printer is fuss free and requires some time spent tinkering for best results but as a pre built unit I can say it was well assembled with good quality printed parts, worked out of the boxand has printed almost continously since first power on without missing a beat.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

Going to be short and sweet. Cancel it unless you want to have to fix / rebuild it all. It's not ready for release - give it 6 months, maybe then and that's just the truth and I have one - Ordered Oct 5th and received it a few weeks ago, assembly was easy but the prints are not good at all. The machine works but that is where the good stops. Plus some of the issues the printer has will not be fixible via a magic firmware and even then if is is fixed (hidden) you will be printing MK2S speeds on a MK3 body and that's the cold hard truth like it or not.

Hell I have a perfectly built kit, with upgraded Misumi rods and bearings - I will be happy to sell it to anyone that must have it. It prints fine if you lower the speed to 60% or less on the LCD. IF anyone is interested let me know! 🙂

I've followed a couple on Ebay and they seem to move well and at above cost, granted they're new in box though... I'd be curious to see what you could get out of yours on Ebay, I'm guessing you could at the very least come close to breaking even. I'm pretty happy with mine but I don't have much to compare it to so I may be completely misguided here.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

Plus some of the issues the printer has will not be fixible via a magic firmware and even then if is is fixed (hidden) you will be printing MK2S speeds on a MK3 body and that's the cold hard truth like it or not.

For those of us who are still trying to decide whether to order and MK3 or not, it would be helpful to know what issues you think won't be fixable (especially since you state that Prusa has a record of fixing issues). Thank you.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I've had my machine for a few weeks and am running with whatever firmware it came with (middle of December 2017)

The biggest problem mine has (that I care about) is a squeaking X-axis belt. I intend to fix that with my own design or with updated parts from Prusa if they develop something good.

I don't care about the filament sensor so I disabled and removed it. If evidence arrives one day that it solves more issues than it causes I will put it back in.

The really great part of this printer is the magnetic bed, spring steel + PEI print surface. I have printed with PLA and with PC-MAX from Polymaker.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

You cannot get an accurate idea of the number of issues that are being experienced versus the total number of machines sold by reading a support forum, only that at least one person has an issue (the person posting).

Equally, you can expect to have some problems during the life of the printer, simply by its very nature of being a relatively new technology and the fact you are NOT buying the AMG of 3D printers, but instead the Chevy (no offense to Chevrolet owners) 😆

Conclusion? Like the rest of us, you takes your chances, or not.

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

Im also going into this eyes wide open, even though this is my first 3d printer i am aware through my research into it that any 3d printer under $1k is a tool you will need to tinker with from time to time to keep running well, requiring both maintenance and tweaking/upgrading as time goes on. Having a good electronics and mechanical background this does not bother me and im excited more than any other emotion to get started tweaking this thing when i finally get it. Im viewing this as a learning experience more than anything else. And hoping over time i can make it into a workhorse like the Mk2/s was widely known to be.

If you need a printer to run all the time right off the bat no issues at all like in a production/commercial environment you are likely better off going with a time proven design $3-4k professional level printer from a good manufacturer. Im ok spending 1k and making the tweaks myself to fine tune it as time goes on and better designs are tweaked/made by Prusa/users.

Just my .02c, like alot of things in life its all about metering your expectations to avoid being dissapointed

Your sentiment is EXACTLY what I tell people to enter this hobby with. Even the expensive printers are not going to live up the expectations of some people.

What I generally tell interested parties is... If you want a 3d printer that you can take off the shelf of a store, set up, and forget like an HP laser printer, you are out of luck. Do not bother with the hobby for another 20 years or so. But, if you like to tinker and love to learn as I do, this is a great hobby. I little frustration here and there, but a huge reward payoff!

Happy printing!!!

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

For me the answer is simple. Where are all the mainstream companies and their 3d Printer offerings? Certain fruit based companies and other would be delivering now if this was easy but its not. 3D printing involves an amount of configuration, some trial and error, some knowledge of design, some ingenuity and plenty of perseverance.
If none of the above were involved then the bigger multinational companies would have printers coming out their ears, but they don't for a reason. Lets face it we are dealing with molten plastic being applied down to an accuracy of 50microns for periods of time up to 30+ hours in some cases for an audience of people who expect 110% all of the time.
The fact is, I see the demo printers running, they worked, and as such so should the delivered models. If there are differences between the displayed models and the delivered models then they will know what required, however if the problems are in reality just the printers and how they perform in the wild then they will have to look at what works, not just for 1 person, but for all people with good or bad printers.
Should it have been launched when it was, well people brought it knowing it wasn't ready when they paid but took that chance, but they should be provided with a working printer. The only thing missing right now I feel is an interactive board for the problems participated with / by Prusa.
I don't think they can acknowledge all problems as not all people have the problems, but even Josef listed some in his video and they are working on them, which at this stage is a good thing.

Case in point, I just paid Apple £25 for a replacement battery on my iPhone 6s that started suffering after 18months. Its manufacture date puts it outside of the known battery problems that they suffered on this very model by 2 weeks and as such refuse acknowledge that my phone could have been part of that same batch that was faulty. Add to that the 'trying' to help customers by slowing down the phones with known battery issues to make them last longer. Thats a company unwilling to acknowledge customers and what they have had done. My answer, this will be my last iphone, as useable as it is, I have no trust in Apple...
I have every trust in Prusa thus far to fix what needs to be fixed and hope it stays that way.
Make you choice with what you know, and what you really feel, if there's a chance you are unhappy with your purchase before you buy it, then you are already negative and will be unlikely to work any problems out if you do have some, which takes you all the way back to paragraph 1 😀

Nick

Re: Cancel or not? Bad impression's ...

I will totally echo the sentiment that forums tend to sway heavily towards the people having problems, and not the people that are perfectly happy.

However, in light of that, I will say that I am in love with my MK3!! This is not my first printer. My previous printers were not Chinese knock offs, didn't produce even remotely as good of results, were WAY louder, much slower, and required extensive maintenance, and tweaks to keep them going. They also had near zero technical support, and nowhere near the community that Prusa has.

In the last 3 weeks I have had zero issues that I would attribute to firmware. I print almost exclusively from the attached Raspberry Pi Zero W, run a camera, and record many of my prints. The RPI Zero runs about 60% CPU when all that is going. The only cpu limiting task I have found yet is that I like to run the Filament Manager Plugin, and it requires extra processing to calculate how much filament is going to be used before it will start a print. So large prints are delayed some time before they can start, if the file hasn't previously been processed. But this is something I added.

Do what ever you feel is right, but don't expect an amazingly better experience from any other vendor at a similar price point.