E3D Hotend Insulators  

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Ben
 ben
(@ben)
Reputable Member

I have no idea. I would have thought a 2 month old MK2 would have the right hot end?? Or why it would be posted on a MK2 forum as an improvement for a standard MK2. 😯

They would look cool if they could be seen. 😉 The idea of holding heat is a good one though as the MK2 does suffer from the fan lowering temps.

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Posted : 04/09/2016 9:28 pm
JohnOCFII
(@johnocfii)
Estimable Member

It's important that people be sure they have the right Hot-End for the e3d socks... It MUST be an e3d V6 Full hotend with the new style cartridge thermistor... otherwise they won't fit properly.

I guess we shall see what shows up when my new i3 MK2 kit shows up this week.

John

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Posted : 04/09/2016 9:30 pm
JohnOCFII
(@johnocfii)
Estimable Member

Have you double checked that you have the newer style Hot-End (with cartridge Thermistor)?

I finally figured out how to tell the difference. The first document below shows the E3D6 wiring for the old style thermistor, and the second shows the new cartridge style.

http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_Assembly_(Old_Wiring)

http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_Assembly

Look closely at the photo in the Thermistor section. That is where you will see the difference.

John

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Posted : 04/09/2016 9:42 pm
Ben
 ben
(@ben)
Reputable Member

1st link does not work.

I have one with the screw on it so probably not a new one. typical. Old technology in a 2 month old printer 🙄

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Posted : 04/09/2016 10:08 pm
JohnOCFII
(@johnocfii)
Estimable Member

1st link does not work.

Link is fixed.

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Posted : 04/09/2016 10:26 pm
martin
(@martin)
Eminent Member

I had to order a new hotend and got one of these insulators with it.
It makes direct contact to the extruder body and cover, so i did not mount it to prevent possible melting and displacement of the nozzle.

br
martin

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Posted : 04/09/2016 11:06 pm
ayourk
(@ayourk)
Reputable Member

Have you double checked that you have the newer style Hot-End (with cartridge Thermistor)?

I finally figured out how to tell the difference. The first document below shows the E3D6 wiring for the old style thermistor, and the second shows the new cartridge style.

http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_Assembly_(Old_Wiring)

http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_Assembly

Look closely at the photo in the Thermistor section. That is where you will see the difference.

John

From what I can tell about the difference between the 2: The cartridge version has a set screw right near where the nozzle hooks up and the old style is shorter and doesn't have room for this set screw in front of the nozzle.

Dimensions PNG and an 8 inch (200mm) or greater caliper is recommended....
Posted : 07/09/2016 12:34 am
in2print
(@in2print)
Active Member

This sock would mess with the fit of the pinda hat from Prusa.

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Posted : 07/09/2016 5:13 am
Ben
 ben
(@ben)
Reputable Member

Get a reel of Kapton tape. No messing about for years with a reel of Kapton 😉

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Posted : 07/09/2016 8:43 am
jono.s
(@jono-s)
Active Member

So what's the state of support for the socks for a MK2 upgrade (from 1.75) kit? I admit I don't totally understand the possible need for a different block, nor do I understand if any firmware would need change if I did have to swap out the block (also, would it just fit if I took it apart and swapped it in?).

I know my printer pretty well, but the mechanics of the print head are still a bit beyond me. Should I just buy the socks or the block and sock kit? Am I in for a world of trouble doing the upgrade or will it be a pretty easy disassembly and reassembly?

=)

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Posted : 02/12/2016 12:40 am
sean.h2
(@sean-h2)
Active Member

I've been using socks on mine since the end of october, with good results. I'm mostly printing PETG and nylon. It's a little tight between the block and the parts fan nozzle, but it does fit, and doesn't interfere with the pinda hat. As far as I know, the requirement for the new block is purely because the sock does not accommodate the screw and washer that clamp the old style thermistor in place. You can see the two block styles here: http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_Assembly#Thermistor

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Posted : 02/12/2016 3:43 pm
PJR
 pjr
(@pjr)
Antient Member Moderator

I have been using socks for a couple of months now. Only good things to say about them.

They keep the nozzle clean and keep the heat in; yes I had to adjust PID settings, but that is no biggie.

The only time they have come off if when I have taken them off.

The only problem is they will not fit the earlier heater blocks which are quite a bit shorter.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 02/12/2016 5:41 pm
Lee
(@lee_b)
Eminent Member

yes I had to adjust PID settings, but that is no biggie.
Would you elaborate please? I have the socks sitting at home and my printer ships next week (according to Support) so I'll be coming at this fresh.

Bad decisions make good stories...
Posted : 02/12/2016 8:38 pm
PJR
 pjr
(@pjr)
Antient Member Moderator

Lee

PID tuning adjusts for the additional insulation that the socks afford.

Ideally the extruder temperature will not vary by more than 1 degree (+/-) and the factory settings are such that this is usually the case.

Adding socks (and I presume you have noted the various warnings about doing so) insulate the heater block and cause temperature variations of 5 degrees C (or more).

The printer itself can determine what the PID values need to be by calling the M303 command. When the results are received the M301 command is used to program the amended settings into the printer.

More information about the commands can be found here: http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code but please bare in mind that the firmware is Marlin and that the Wiki covers a variety of other firmware flavours.

If you are feeling brave enough to do all this, then read up about it and come back with any questions you may have.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 02/12/2016 9:52 pm
Lee
(@lee_b)
Eminent Member

Thanks Peter. I'll go have a read.

Bad decisions make good stories...
Posted : 02/12/2016 11:39 pm
carsten.w2
(@carsten-w2)
Estimable Member

PID tuning is really easy. Just say:

M303 E0 S200 C8

E is the Extruder (0 default), S the temp you like to optimize, C the number of cycles.

In the end it will tell you the new values:

Recv: bias: 93 d: 93 min: 195.63 max: 205.58
Recv: Ku: 23.79 Tu: 32.60
Recv: Classic PID
Recv: Kp: 14.27
Recv: Ki: 0.88
Recv: Kd: 58.17
Recv: PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from above into Configuration.h

Test them with;

M301 P14.27 I0.88 D58.17

Fo me it did make a BIG difference! No oscilatiing anymore.

There is just one Question; Can I save the new values? Is M500 the right command?

Carsten

My Things: http://www.thingiverse.com/calli/designs
My Book: http://blenderbuch.de
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Posted : 03/12/2016 1:02 pm
richard.l
(@richard-l)
Member Moderator

There is just one Question; Can I save the new values? Is M500 the right command?

It is, but it won't work on the MK2 as they have saving to eeprom turned off in the firmware. You can place it in your Start G-code script or you can download the source firmware and make the changes in it, recompile, and then upload back to the MK2.

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Posted : 03/12/2016 1:52 pm
Lee
(@lee_b)
Eminent Member

So a marginally related practical question of application then:

These commands are G-code and to use them I would create a file and store it on the SD card? Then after for instance the "M303 E0 S200 C8" command is processed, the LCD would display the result?

Is there a way to interactively enter commands? Say from the PC? I read that it is possible to send G-Code across the serial bus. Does this mean I would use a terminal program to do this? And then the results would echo back to the terminal?

Sorry for getting really basic on this. It's all new to me. It's like saying "drive here" to a person new to cars. I need to know how to put the key in the ignition. 😀

Finally, related to Carsten's question. Let's say the G-code "M301 P14.27 I0.88 D58.17" is sent. I understand this is not saved to the EEPROM. Will the firmware keep this setting until the power is cycled then?

I know, lots of questions. I'm sorry to bring this to such a remedial level.

Bad decisions make good stories...
Posted : 03/12/2016 5:22 pm
JohnOCFII
(@johnocfii)
Estimable Member


Finally, related to Carsten's question. Let's say the G-code "M301 P14.27 I0.88 D58.17" is sent. I understand this is not saved to the EEPROM. Will the firmware keep this setting until the power is cycled then?

Slicing software (Slic3r, as provided by Prusa, or Simplify3D, or others) allow for insertion of G-CODE commands before every print job. When you get your slicing software, you will see where these commands are located. They typically handle items such as turning on the heaters, etc. You will add the M301 command with the results of your PID tuning to the list of commands.

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Posted : 03/12/2016 5:46 pm
PJR
 pjr
(@pjr)
Antient Member Moderator

Lee

You can interact with the printer using Pronterface or similar (which is included in the driver package) or via OctoPrint (or similar) when you get to that stage.

Peter

Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…...
Posted : 03/12/2016 8:55 pm
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