Notifications
Clear all

What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)  

  RSS
Bodo
 Bodo
(@bodo)
Estimable Member
What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

I've cancelled that print during 1st layer. Previous attempts also failed under similar conditions.

  • Material: ABS - parameters used are verified with successful prints
  • Nozzle: 0.25mm
  • PEI cleaned with 2-propanol
  • Printed in enclosure at ~26°C
  • 1st layer calibration checked and confirmed well

Where would I look to get this right? 

Best Answer by --:

Also - read the Prusa manuals that come with the printer. ABS (and similar ASA) might require a primer for printing on the smooth sheets. I'm not a fan of these due to the stink, but gluestick can help and washes away with water.

https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/first-layer-issues_1804/

6.3.3 Increasing the adhesion
In some special occasions, such as printing a tall object with a very small contact area (with the print surface), you might need to increase the adhesion. Fortunately, PEI is a very chemically resistant polymer and you can temporarily apply various adhesion solutions without damaging it. This also applies to materials which would not stick to PEI otherwise, like Nylon etc.

Before applying anything onto the bed, consider using the Brim option in PrusaSlicer which increases the surface area of the first layer.
For Nylon blends, a simple glue stick does the trick. The glue can be easily removed later either using a window cleaner or dish soap water.
For ABS prints, ABS juice can be used and later cleaned with pure acetone. Be very gentle when applying the juice and do so while the bed is cold. Prints will attach very strongly. Prepared juice can also be purchased in our e-shop. Unfortunately, UPS service
does not allow us to deliver any acetone-based products due to shipping constraints. In that case you get only the bottle and ABS from our e-shop and you have to source the acetone locally.

Posted : 17/11/2020 9:32 am
manfred.schwiebert
(@manfred-schwiebert)
Active Member
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

From my point of view this looks like an bed adhesion problem in parts of the build plate.

I would recommend:

1. Switch bed leveling to 7x7 mode for a finer tuning of the first layer.

2. Clean the build surface, but not with isopropanol but with soap and water. Sometimes the isopropanol just evenly spreads a thin film of grease on the buildplate - it does not clean well. Remove all grease and retry.

If that fails, then try to lower your first layer a bit. Optically the line surrounding the object does not look vbery "squished" and still very round to me. But try the above steps first, the picture alone can be decieving.

Posted : 17/11/2020 10:38 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)
Posted by: @manfred-schwiebert

From my point of view this looks like an bed adhesion problem in parts of the build plate.

I would recommend:

1. Switch bed leveling to 7x7 mode for a finer tuning of the first layer.

2. Clean the build surface, but not with isopropanol but with soap and water. Sometimes the isopropanol just evenly spreads a thin film of grease on the buildplate - it does not clean well. Remove all grease and retry.

If that fails, then try to lower your first layer a bit. Optically the line surrounding the object does not look vbery "squished" and still very round to me. But try the above steps first, the picture alone can be decieving.

I concur - most likely: 

  1. Z-offset (live Z) if off (too high is most common)
  2. Dirty bed

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/11/2020 10:54 am
--
 --
(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

Also - read the Prusa manuals that come with the printer. ABS (and similar ASA) might require a primer for printing on the smooth sheets. I'm not a fan of these due to the stink, but gluestick can help and washes away with water.

https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/first-layer-issues_1804/

6.3.3 Increasing the adhesion
In some special occasions, such as printing a tall object with a very small contact area (with the print surface), you might need to increase the adhesion. Fortunately, PEI is a very chemically resistant polymer and you can temporarily apply various adhesion solutions without damaging it. This also applies to materials which would not stick to PEI otherwise, like Nylon etc.

Before applying anything onto the bed, consider using the Brim option in PrusaSlicer which increases the surface area of the first layer.
For Nylon blends, a simple glue stick does the trick. The glue can be easily removed later either using a window cleaner or dish soap water.
For ABS prints, ABS juice can be used and later cleaned with pure acetone. Be very gentle when applying the juice and do so while the bed is cold. Prints will attach very strongly. Prepared juice can also be purchased in our e-shop. Unfortunately, UPS service
does not allow us to deliver any acetone-based products due to shipping constraints. In that case you get only the bottle and ABS from our e-shop and you have to source the acetone locally.

Posted : 17/11/2020 3:19 pm
Bodo liked
Bodo
 Bodo
(@bodo)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

cheers everyone, it was bad adhesion. @tim-m30 his suggestion with gluestick did it. I've mixed IPA and Kores on a piece of cloth, and distributed it evenly:

(swapped the PEI sheet for the one I use with gluestick only)

Posted : 17/11/2020 6:38 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

You can print on a textured sheet with ABS and ASA, but they can over adhere.  It is brand specific.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/11/2020 6:40 pm
--
 --
(@)
Illustrious Member
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

As an FYI - glad the trick worked; but I've come to the conclusion a gluestik is a great release agent to reduce adhesion.

Funniest part of all this, and why I am a great advocate of soap and water over alcohol, in cases where glue had helped adhesion, in 99.9% of those cases I had oil films on the bed that soap and water removed at the same time I was cleaning off the glue. Subsequent prints didn't need glue to stick properly. Dooh!

Posted : 17/11/2020 7:25 pm
Bodo
 Bodo
(@bodo)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

That's my experience as well: ABS does not have consistent behaviour. Most just need a cleaned sheet, some need ABS as a release agent, and the one discussed here needed ABS as an adhesion helper. 

The latter, I've never (consciously) experienced before in the 500ish ABS prints I have done. Will definitely try the water/soap wash on occasion.

Posted : 19/11/2020 8:48 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
RE: What happens here? (failed print during 1st layer)

@bodo

You are correct.  A rare roll fo ABS needs a releasing agent.  It can be rough on your build surface because there tend to stick too much.  Heated enclosures are essential to prevent warping.   

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 19/11/2020 1:45 pm
Share: