Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails
 
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Wolfgang Weber
(@wolfgang-weber)
Active Member
Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

Hi everyone.

 

I am trying to print a Coin (for a shopping cart) with small details with a 0,25mm nozzle and 0,1mm height (nozzle x).
I know it is very very hard, but i want to do it. This applies to other prints i want to do as well.
I now have tried around 100+ Coins. 8 turned out ok. 8% isn't great. And its a pure luck game.

 

The 1. Layer always fails. it mostly wrapps around the nozzle. Is displaced by the nozzle.
Curls up or just wrinkles up and looses detail.
I have calibrated/tuned z multiple times. Different amounts and methods of applying gluestick (3-4 Layers work best).
different first layer heights (0.1-0.2mm). Tried different print speeds from 5-40mm/s.
Temps from 190-220°C and Bed temps from 45-60°C.
I also experimented with z-hop and retractions. Checked the belts and lubed everything. idk. everything.
I use Fillamentum Gold PLA Extrafill and Prusament Jet Black PLA on a cleaned smooth bed.(and textured that doesnt work at all for tiny prints) .

 

How would you slice it? How can i achieve insane bed-adhesion were i can print tiny single lines/outlines without displacement/curling?
i print with the piano down and archimedean chords as top fill pattern.
PrusaSlicer 2.2.0

i don't print more then 4 at a time and change the filament manually.

I printed a tray of 2x16 slots i want to fill. (and never ever print it again 😀 )

 

Here some pictures. Here the stl file: https://cloud.wolfgangweber.ch/index.php/s/6tXowGczbSCTHqK
And much thanks in advance.

 

Best Answer by rmm200:

If you are willing to give it a try, flip your plate over to the clean side. (if it is).

Give it a thorough scrubbing with hot water and an unscented detergent like Dawn or Fairy.

Dry with a clean paper towel. Never touch the print area.

Now print. No IPA this time. Just clean PEI. Let us know the result.

This topic was modified 2 years ago by Wolfgang Weber
Posted : 18/03/2020 9:31 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

Can we start from the beginning? Print a calibration square from here and post the result.

https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-assembly-and-first-prints-troubleshooting/life-adjust-z-my-way/

I also wish you would try it with a plain brass nozzle, no glue stick, and a filament without fillers - but that is just me wishing...

I don't trust filament with fillers in small nozzles, and not sure how I feel about Nozzle X. It heats differently than brass.

My glue stick is still unopened from when I built my MK3S. It does not bother me - and I don't bother it.

 

This post was modified 2 years ago by rmm200
Posted : 18/03/2020 10:15 pm
Wolfgang Weber
(@wolfgang-weber)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

@robert-rmm200

Hi.

 

I don't have a brass nozzle with 0,25mm so i used the nozzle x. Maybe i order one and try.

i created a 2 x 2 cm square.

left is 0,1mm layer height. middle 0,15mm and right 0,2mm

I use a sock on the heatblock if that changes something.?

Standard 0,25mm nozzel and 0,10mm detail preset in prusaslicer.

live adjust z Value -0,850 ( i usually go from 0,8-0,9) (on the textured plate from -1,1-1,2mm) 

I changed:

- first layer height (0,10 0,15 0,20)

- Bed 50°C

- Nozzle Gold: 205°C (190-210)

                Black 215°C (205-225)

i feel like the gold is harder to print. somehow not so full/voluminous and also transparent in the first 2 layers.

I haven't given much thought into filaments. I started with the kit Prusa grey pla and ordered these filaments after that:

 

- Prusament PLA Jet Black

- Prusament PLA Galaxy Silver

- Prusament PLA Pineapple Yellow

- Fillamentum PLA Etrafill Gold Happens

- Fillamentum PLA Etrafill pearl Ruby Red

- Fillamentum PLA Etrafill Traffic White

- Fillamentum Flexfill 98A Signal Red

- Prusament ASA Galaxy Black

 

Anything from that list without fillers?

Also i am absolutely 100% unable to print without glue on the smooth buildplate.

Regardless of nozzle size and layer height. How?

 

 

 

Posted : 18/03/2020 11:12 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

If you are willing to give it a try, flip your plate over to the clean side. (if it is).

Give it a thorough scrubbing with hot water and an unscented detergent like Dawn or Fairy.

Dry with a clean paper towel. Never touch the print area.

Now print. No IPA this time. Just clean PEI. Let us know the result.

Posted : 19/03/2020 4:09 am
Wolfgang Weber
(@wolfgang-weber)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

@robert-rmm200

Thanks for the tip with the detergent. I used hand soap up to now. Now i tried fit detergent and paper towels (instead of a regular towel)

 

The first layer is perfect now. every time (2x4 Coins). However only with lower speeds. But the bed adhesion is not gerat. That is partly the fault of the model. (lower surface area). I might need a brim around the coin. The nozzle displaces the coin after around 5-6 Layers. Also it warps??? with 50°C bed Its PLA not ABS/ASA???

 

Here are some videos printing. Also testing the squares, that only work with lower speeds:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL80wqa4so_VYxCQwOiNnzKv2txeyLFC88

 

I will try a few thinks tomorrow evening. How would you fix the warping and get better bed adhesion?

But thanks so so much for that tip. The dish detergent made all the difference. I did not think i could print without anything.

 

 

Posted : 19/03/2020 10:14 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

Could you please try 70c for the Bed? 
regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 19/03/2020 11:46 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

I second the 70 C. I feel like you almost have it...

 

Posted : 20/03/2020 5:46 am
Wolfgang Weber
(@wolfgang-weber)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

@robert-rmm200 @joantabb

Hey.

Setting the Bed Temp to 70°C fixed all my problems. Thank you for all the help.

Now it works around 90% of the time. Instead of 8% 😀

Even if it was that simple to fix, i am glad you pointed me in the right direction.

I would have taken a long long time to figure out that it is my bed cleaning technique and not the bed/machine.

Also the bed temp. I would probably never turned it that high for PLA. But it worked.

Thanks allot

This post was modified 2 years ago by Wolfgang Weber
Posted : 20/03/2020 9:46 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: Small Coin 0,25mm Nozzle fine details. First Layer constantly fails

😀

Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 20/03/2020 10:45 pm
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