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Komet_82
(@komet_82)
Active Member

Hi all,

I'm new here in this community. 

Unfortunately I'm struggling with my MK3S already several times with large flat prints that they lift edges and start do tetach from the printbed during printing(see picture).

I have following environement.

Printing PLA with recomendet temperatures, tried both print plates, PEI and powder coated, have the V2 enclosure with one door 45deg open, all that is located in the basement of my home with about 12-14°C (i guess this could be the problem)?

Do you eperts have any recomondations how to success wirh these temperatures around my printer/enclosure?

 

Mamy tha ks for your support

 

Posted : 08/12/2019 4:21 pm
Komet_82
(@komet_82)
Active Member

Posted : 08/12/2019 4:25 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Famed Member

Well... you're printing on the ceiling! (The forum software isn't great at dealing with pics).

I'm going to give you a dump of info on the most common failures. Try these out, then report back if you have continued issues...

Your underlying issue is bed adhesion. This is a common problem that can be caused or aggravated by two factors that need to work together well for successful prints. Here's mama's tried and true copypasta recipe to get you going...
 
You are having bed adhesion issues. Filament should lay down cleanly on the PEI print surface and hold throughout the print. There are 2 main causes of bed adhesion issues. Even if you're dubious that these are the cause of your problems, they're 2 fundamental troubleshooting steps that you need to complete to rule out the basics:
  • A dirty PEI print surface. Even if you don't think this is the cause, it's always a good idea to make sure your PEI surface is clean before trying any other fixes. If it's a smooth PEI sheet, take it to the kitchen sink and give it a good dunk with Dawn (original formula, no vinegar or hand softener variants) dishwashing soap or your local equivalent (e.g. Fairy in UK). Use a clean paper towel to clean it off, and another to dry it. Avoid using any sponge or cloth that has been in contact with grease. Above all else, avoid touching the PEI print surface. Once it's good and clean, you should be able to use 91%+ isopropyl alcohol between prints, 100% acetone when that fails , and another dunk when acetone fails. Worst-case, use a 3M 7445 ScotchBrite pad or equivalent on smooth PEI to give it a very light buff, but only infrequently. If you've got a textured powder-coated PEI print surface, the official instructions are to use 91%+ isopropyl alcohol on it only. Rumors persist that some tribes deep in the jungle have had good luck getting started with these sheets by giving them a wipe with 100% acetone and a dunk with Dawn. Either way, there's no real warranty on these sheets. YMMV.
  • If you have not already done so, try using Jeff Jordan's "Life Adjust" procedure for calibrating your Live-Z setting. It is much easier to use and understand than the on-board routine. It's much easier to make mid-print adjustments accurately with. In general, start high (less negative) and work lower (more negative) in large increments (e.g. 0.1mm) until the filament starts to stick on its own. When you've got your Live-Z setting adjusted properly, you should be able to gently rub the extruded lines on the PEI surface without dislodging them.  Then start lowering (more negative) the level until there are no gaps between layers. 
Remember that the effectiveness of a solvent such as isopropyl alcohol is going to depend on concentration and volume relative to the amount of grease you're trying to remove. 71% pads work... on very tiny amounts of grease. A squirt of 91% works better, but if there's a lot of grease, you need a lot more alcohol. This is why the wash under the sink with Dawn is so effective: There's a much larger volume of Dawn-and-water rinsisng stuff away instead of just moving the broken-down grease molecules around.
  
And above all else, avoid touching the PEI print surface.
 
Glue stick is NOT necessary for PLA on the PEI print surface. You paid the big bucks for a Prusa with a removable spring still sheet with PEI, so clean it up and take advantage of it. Save the glue stick for printing sticky stuff like PETG that might adhere too well. Even then, I only find I need glue stick when printing high-temp PETG at 260C+ temps.
 
Try those 2 steps. If you're uncertain of the Live-Z results, post pics here of the 75x75 print bottom and you'll get quick help. If you want more detail, I've consolidated my notes on Prusa PEI adhesion, bed cleaning, and Live-Z calibration
 
A bit of trivia - The reason higher concentrations of alcohol seem to be harder to find is that isopropyl alcohol is most effective against bacteria at roughly a 71% concentration. A  bit of distilled water helps break down the bacterial cell walls. If you're looking in pharmacies, that's why 91% and higher seem to be hard to find.
 
Some of us have had a difficult time with PLA on the textured sheet, but try these remediation steps 1st to see if you've got a good one.
This post was modified 1 month ago by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 08/12/2019 5:28 pm
Komet_82
(@komet_82)
Active Member

Many thanks for that extensive support.

Did alot of dishwashing on the pei sheet weeks ago, then switched to the textured sheet, but it seems to be a bit tricky with pla.

Havend done isoprop cleaning on the pei sheet so far, but will try as well. Further will try the 75by75 live adjust tomorrow, sounds more effective to me.

The above shown print i will retry next weekend and will let you know about the results.

 

You think that all has nothing todo with the low temperature in the room?

 

Thanks

Posted : 08/12/2019 8:16 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Prominent Member

Detergent and water scrubbing is at least ten times more important on the textured sheet than on the smooth (they are both PEI).

Posted : 09/12/2019 6:20 am
mdaneman
(@mdaneman)
Estimable Member

@robert-rmm200

I do a isopropyl (90%) wipe on my PEI sheet before every print.  It works great. Occasionally I wash the sheet with dishwashing soap and hot water (mainly when I'm switching filament types or if I start seeing adhesion issues).  If adhesion is degraded even with this treatment, then an acetone wipe refreshes the sheet, but should not be done too often since, as i understand it, it actually removes a bit of PEI.

Posted : 09/12/2019 8:18 am
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @mdaneman

@robert-rmm200

I do a isopropyl (90%) wipe on my PEI sheet before every print.  It works great. Occasionally I wash the sheet with dishwashing soap and hot water (mainly when I'm switching filament types or if I start seeing adhesion issues).  If adhesion is degraded even with this treatment, then an acetone wipe refreshes the sheet, but should not be done too often since, as i understand it, it actually removes a bit of PEI.

No argument here. That is the procedure I recommend. My comment was to the OP, who never indicated he used detergent and water on the textured plate.

 

Posted : 09/12/2019 7:36 pm
Komet_82
(@komet_82)
Active Member

hi,

thanks for the helpful advises.

on the textured pei sheet I did only isopropyl cleaning, I recall having read this somewhere. It seems I have to do the dishwasher cleaining there as well.

right now I did the dishwasher clean and afterwards isopropyl wipe for a simple print on the smooth sheet. just to see how it sticks. It looks like I was just to sloppy with the cleaning of the sheets. looking forward to try the large print again soon.

Posted : 09/12/2019 9:14 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Prominent Member

There is cleaning and there is cleaning... Don't use the dishwasher... Soap is too caustic.

I was referring to hand cleaning with an unscented detergent like Dawn. Scrub vigorously with your hands and rinse thoroughly.

Posted : 10/12/2019 12:52 am
Komet_82
(@komet_82)
Active Member

Thanks, with ddishwasher cleaning and a iso wipe it went well on the smooth pei sheet.

 

Do you think such a pla print should be possible on the textured sheet as well?

Posted : 13/12/2019 6:49 am
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Prominent Member

After resolving my adhesion problems, the sheet I choose is based on the surface finish I want. Which is how it should be.

Posted : 13/12/2019 5:19 pm
magician.144
(@magician-144)
Eminent Member

Turns out Target sells 91%

 

Hope this helps,

Ken

Posted : 14/12/2019 4:40 pm
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