Poor surface finish after upgrading to Volcano &0.6mm Nozzle
 
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Poor surface finish after upgrading to Volcano &0.6mm Nozzle  

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darkraver
(@darkraver)
Active Member
Poor surface finish after upgrading to Volcano &0.6mm Nozzle

I've recently upgraded to a Volcano and a 0.6mm nozzle in an effort to print wider and faster. I've tuned the speeds for a MVR of about 22mm3/s for infills and about 75% that for perimeters. However, i'm not sure if it's a stiffness issue or parameter issue but I'm unable to get good surface finishes, as shown by the lumpy surface blemishes on the vertical walls.

As far a dimensional accuracy, they measure <0.05mm from the design, and extrusion calibration has been adjusted to 98% to get the correct single wall thickness. The extruder doesn't seem to be struggling or click or complain, and I've tried printing with and without a filament guide.

I've attached the 3mf file as well as provided a link to some images

 

Block2

Thanks!

Posted : 16/09/2021 5:41 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
Print

I will try to print on Monday unless some jumps ahead of me.  I have some ideas but want to confirm them first.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/09/2021 2:02 am
darkraver
(@darkraver)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Thanks!

Thanks! Hopefully it's something simple to fix

Posted : 17/09/2021 4:34 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
It's still PLA

Assuming you're using typical 0.6mm nozzle settings of 0.48mm layer height and 0.72mm extrusion widths, you're using something like 50mm/s for perimeters. First and simplest thing is to slow down and see if anything improves. Dial speed back 50% with the front knob and compare. If that fixes it, slicer settings can be adjusted accordingly.

The Volcano is an older design that is very long, and if not supported well, can wiggle, aggravating consistency at speed. I went with the 3D Solex nozzles on my Mk3 myself.

After some testing on my 2nd printer with a Volcano, I was surprised to find that PLA doesn't like being pushed much faster than 20mm^3/s.

 

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/09/2021 7:21 am
darkraver
(@darkraver)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Maybe it's wiggling...?

I was worried about the long length of the volcano as well, so I've also replaced my extruder assembly with the one from this model to better support the volcano, though I'm not sure if it does much in terms of stiffness.

Re:PLA speeds, I've also tried running it at the default prusa 0.3mm 0.6nozzle quality speeds but terminated the print as the surface quality was identical. If I remember right, those are ~10mm3/s, dropping to ~6 for the external perimeter, so more than a 50% reduction over my initial settings.

 

Posted : 17/09/2021 8:27 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @darkraver

I was worried about the long length of the volcano as well, so I've also replaced my extruder assembly with the one from this model to better support the volcano, though I'm not sure if it does much in terms of stiffness.

It may be just fine, but it's definitely a new hardware factor to worry about, particularly at higher speeds. You might find that adjusting acceleration and jerk reduce problems as well. My Sidewinder's Volcano can definitely wobble a bit.

Re:PLA speeds, I've also tried running it at the default prusa 0.3mm 0.6nozzle quality speeds but terminated the print as the surface quality was identical. If I remember right, those are ~10mm3/s, dropping to ~6 for the external perimeter, so more than a 50% reduction over my initial settings. 

I suggest trying the test procedure I linked to just to see what results you get with your setup. There are a LOT of variables that tie into tuning MVS. Looking at those walls, I'd definitely crank the speed WAY back to see if it improves. If so, regardless of theory, speed is part of the problem. The biggest surprise to me was, even with the big honkin' Volcano, I still have to print slowly with large nozzles. Mind you, prints complete much faster, but the nozzle certainly doesn't zip around as much as with smaller nozzles.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/09/2021 9:49 pm
darkraver
(@darkraver)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
50% about the same

I dropped the speed 50% at the printer, but it doesn't seem like there's any difference.

Posted : 18/09/2021 1:41 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator

there are maximum parameters in firmware, which are compared to the requested speeds, which often results in the printer not achieveing the desired speeds, especially on intricate parts with short paths and or high detail. 
in this case slowing the print speed may simply match the new requested speed, to the maximum achievable speed taking the limits into consideration. and thus result in no significant change of speed!

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 18/09/2021 4:39 am
darkraver
(@darkraver)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Followup
Posted by: @cwbullet

I will try to print on Monday unless some jumps ahead of me.  I have some ideas but want to confirm them first.  

Were you able to see what's going on with my setup?

Posted : 20/09/2021 11:26 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
printing

It if printing right now.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 20/09/2021 11:34 pm
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