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JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality


Properly assembled MK3 prints at least as good as MK2S, I would even say a hair bit better, not to mention the faster prints.

So this is most likely a PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard). Or the unlikely case of some faulty part.

I have a fair amount of experience here and the MK3 is assembled perfectly. The MK2S is much more challenging to assemble and I also did that to perfection and successfully printed many challenging prints in many different filaments, PLA, ABS, PETG, ASA, etc. Ryan also knows what he is doing. I wouldn't be so quick to blame the users. I expect software refinements to solve this.

Posted : 22/12/2017 12:30 am
JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality



Those of you that are having issues, what version of Slic3r are you using? I'd recommend making sure you're on at least 1.38.4, which you can download here.

I am using the official 2.0 driver version which is 1.37.2-prusa. I'm surprised they are already that far ahead on TOT. I'll grab that and try.

I printed another MK2 gcode and it came out well too. So I moved to 1.38.5 Slic3r but that did not turn out well. The print failed massively. I would not yet recommend that version yet.

Posted : 22/12/2017 12:32 am
mmmmmmmmmmmmm
(@mmmmmmmmmmmmm)
Trusted Member
Re: poor print quality

I see no fault in calling "bullshit" on inferior firmware...we all seem to be in the same "beta" boat. My mk2s prints like a BOSS! ...I'm afraid to let the mk3 run unattended. "Quiet" isn't why I bought a mk3....

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 12:44 am
gorkish
(@gorkish)
Eminent Member
Re: poor print quality

I have totally fixed the quality of my MK3 prints.

The drivers-2.0.0 package ships with filament profiles that use the new conditional gcode feature available in Slic3r to set the linear advance settings at the beginning of the print. Unfortunately the Slic3r version that ships with the same package does not support these.

Upgrade your Slic3r to 1.38.4 and update at least to the profiles that are distributed with that version of Slic3r or the profiles on github.

Next, calibrate your extrusion multiplier. The test object, procedure and calculation routine I used is documented in this spreadsheet.

I am not sure why many of the MK3s seem to be overextruding even after fixing linear advance. It may be a small error in the e3d nozzle size. 5-8% error or something on a 0.4mm hole is excellent machining tolerances but at the same time easily enough to cause these issues that we are all dealing with. When coupled with the problem about linear advance not getting set, it pushed me into a frustrating print quality area for sure. But I am happy now and will be happier once the second serial port issues are resolved 😀

Posted : 22/12/2017 1:12 am
mmmmmmmmmmmmm
(@mmmmmmmmmmmmm)
Trusted Member
Re: poor print quality

This does not explain firmware crash ; min temp error, LCD "flashes" and "live z" not updating.
..the firmware is corrupt for many of us.Almost 3 months waiting on a mk2s successor?...I'm not seeing it.

...more firmware updates, more issues. Just how did all the early bbuolds work so well? Give some of that magic.

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 1:35 am
mmmmmmmmmmmmm
(@mmmmmmmmmmmmm)
Trusted Member
Re: poor print quality

Maybe you can buy my mk3 at a discount on eBay in a couple months.

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 1:42 am
ryan.p6
(@ryan-p6)
Active Member
Re: poor print quality

Just FYI - it looks like the belt tension numbers don’t update unless you specifically run self test. They didn’t update for me after running XYZ cal but did seem to update after self test. Either way I tweaked my belt tension and now both are between 230 and 240. I also I spent a couple of hours mounting the frame to a bunch of spare aluminum profile I had lying around so I could loosen all the bolts, square everything up (and I used micrometers and my dial indicator to ensure everything was as perfect as possible, and then I tightened everything back down. I haven’t run any test prints yet but I should get to that later this evening or tomorrow morning.

Can someone summarize the slic3r discussion? I installed the latest driver/slicer package from the Prusa website yesterday so that’s what I’m using. Should I switch to a different version?

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 3:31 am
ryan.p6
(@ryan-p6)
Active Member
Re: poor print quality

Random nit but am I the only one that can’t figure out why they added the extruder back cover and did not add a simple tensioner to the right Z bracket? This seems like a no brainer to me given accessing the X belt is now a huge pain.

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 3:34 am
leonardo.g3
(@leonardo-g3)
Estimable Member
Re: poor print quality


Just FYI - it looks like the belt tension numbers don’t update unless you specifically run self test. They didn’t update for me after running XYZ cal but did seem to update after self test. Either way I tweaked my belt tension and now both are between 230 and 240. I also I spent a couple of hours mounting the frame to a bunch of spare aluminum profile I had lying around so I could loosen all the bolts, square everything up (and I used micrometers and my dial indicator to ensure everything was as perfect as possible, and then I tightened everything back down. I haven’t run any test prints yet but I should get to that later this evening or tomorrow morning.

Can someone summarize the slic3r discussion? I installed the latest driver/slicer package from the Prusa website yesterday so that’s what I’m using. Should I switch to a different version?

Yea... I've noticed that too.... should have said something 😳

I ended up with a value of 255 on the X and it feels right... just like my other printer.

On the Y i cant seem to get it below 280... i had 260 but after a new self test it jumped to 280... tried tightening it... loosening it... nothing will get it bellow that value.

Another thing i've noticed is the Belt twists a little (on the right side) when the print head is moving from left to right. Tried to see if it wasnt aligned.... but i cant do much more than what i already done... it just seems that the pulley itself should be more to the front of the printed piece since the belt wants to come forward.

Here is a video (not mine) of the issue.

Posted : 22/12/2017 4:41 am
ryan.p6
(@ryan-p6)
Active Member
Re: poor print quality

I should have mentioned that mine does the exact same thing (X axis belt twists back and forth). Mine also has a slight buzz from time to time which I think is the pulley rubbing in the z bracket. I haven’t really tried to mess with it yet but I agree that it doesn’t seem like there’s much I’ll be able to do.

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 4:47 am
Jan Pichrt
(@jan-pichrt)
Eminent Member
Re: poor print quality

Even Simplify3D profile created from scratch by wizard (just entered filament diameter, nozzle size and that I have heated bed), prints lot of better than Slic3r or PrusaControl with MK3 profiles 🙄 😡

Sorry Prusa guys, but in the two months of preorders you did not have a man who would tuned print profiles and software for printer to basic functionality? Are we really all who preordered MK3 early beta testers?

...
Posted : 22/12/2017 12:11 pm
JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality


Random nit but am I the only one that can’t figure out why they added the extruder back cover and did not add a simple tensioner to the right Z bracket? This seems like a no brainer to me given accessing the X belt is now a huge pain.

100% agree. I am looking at mod to the back plate to allow belt access.

Posted : 22/12/2017 2:11 pm
JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality


I have totally fixed the quality of my MK3 prints.

The drivers-2.0.0 package ships with filament profiles that use the new conditional gcode feature available in Slic3r to set the linear advance settings at the beginning of the print. Unfortunately the Slic3r version that ships with the same package does not support these.

Upgrade your Slic3r to 1.38.4 and update at least to the profiles that are distributed with that version of Slic3r or the profiles on github.

Next, calibrate your extrusion multiplier. The test object, procedure and calculation routine I used is documented in this spreadsheet.

I am not sure why many of the MK3s seem to be overextruding even after fixing linear advance. It may be a small error in the e3d nozzle size. 5-8% error or something on a 0.4mm hole is excellent machining tolerances but at the same time easily enough to cause these issues that we are all dealing with. When coupled with the problem about linear advance not getting set, it pushed me into a frustrating print quality area for sure. But I am happy now and will be happier once the second serial port issues are resolved 😀

Good to hear. I will try again. I had a bad results with latest slic3r but was using Octoprint which appears to not work reliably with MK3. So I will go back to painful SD shuffling (printer is in different part of house) and try again.

Posted : 22/12/2017 2:14 pm
JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality

I tightened up my Y belt so it feels similar to the X belt. However, the self test barely moved, Y=276. I'm not sure how confident I am in those readings. But belt tensions feel equal and are both taught, similar to MK2.

I checked e-steps and they are perfect out of the box. 100mm = 100mm. MK2 was notorious for under-extruding; many people finding about 5% under. But the print quality and mechanical fit of prints was fantastic. So I tend to want to cheat that direction. I printed the test objects and they measure over so I am adjusting.

gorkish, I think you have an error in your spreadsheet. The extrusion is on two faces, so the over/under error needs to be divided by 2. Your first div 2 is to average the inside / outside extrusion error, but need another div 2 to account for the two faces for each.

So far new slic3r seems to be working without going through octoprint. Early test prints are much smoother now that the over-extrusion is fixed. I think I am still seeing ringing though.

I compared the g-code between MK2 and MK3 Marvin. Two extra commands for MK3: M115 and M900. Anyone know the purpose of M115?

Other difference is MK3 has tons of M204 acceleration adjustments. Maybe that is the cause of the ringing.

Posted : 22/12/2017 4:53 pm
leonardo.g3
(@leonardo-g3)
Estimable Member
Re: poor print quality


Even Simplify3D profile created from scratch by wizard (just entered filament diameter, nozzle size and that I have heated bed), prints lot of better than Slic3r or PrusaControl with MK3 profiles 🙄 😡

Sorry Prusa guys, but in the two months of preorders you did not have a man who would tuned print profiles and software for printer to basic functionality? Are we really all who preordered MK3 early beta testers?

How the heck did you get that working???

My printer wont print with S3D no matter what....

Did you copy the gcode from Slic3r?

Posted : 22/12/2017 7:48 pm
leonardo.g3
(@leonardo-g3)
Estimable Member
Re: poor print quality


I tightened up my Y belt so it feels similar to the X belt. However, the self test barely moved, Y=276. I'm not sure how confident I am in those readings. But belt tensions feel equal and are both taught, similar to MK2.

I checked e-steps and they are perfect out of the box. 100mm = 100mm. MK2 was notorious for under-extruding; many people finding about 5% under. But the print quality and mechanical fit of prints was fantastic. So I tend to want to cheat that direction. I printed the test objects and they measure over so I am adjusting.

gorkish, I think you have an error in your spreadsheet. The extrusion is on two faces, so the over/under error needs to be divided by 2. Your first div 2 is to average the inside / outside extrusion error, but need another div 2 to account for the two faces for each.

So far new slic3r seems to be working without going through octoprint. Early test prints are much smoother now that the over-extrusion is fixed. I think I am still seeing ringing though.

I compared the g-code between MK2 and MK3 Marvin. Two extra commands for MK3: M115 and M900. Anyone know the purpose of M115?

Other difference is MK3 has tons of M204 acceleration adjustments. Maybe that is the cause of the ringing.

I've been able to dial down everything...

My printer puts out almost "perfect" prints.... almost because im still having lots of ringing... didnt noticed at first but its there and quite obvious... specially if i compare the prints with my old printer.

Accelaration settings is probably the culprit here like you said...

Posted : 22/12/2017 7:52 pm
gorkish
(@gorkish)
Eminent Member
Re: poor print quality

I think that in an effort to push all of the profiles to higher speed they have become less stable across the small differences between individual machines. One of the single simplest things to do to improve print quality that you can do is to simply print slower, and it would be nice to at least have a set of profiles that is tuned for higher quality in that way until the kinks get worked out.

Posted : 22/12/2017 9:35 pm
JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality


I think that in an effort to push all of the profiles to higher speed they have become less stable across the small differences between individual machines. One of the single simplest things to do to improve print quality that you can do is to simply print slower, and it would be nice to at least have a set of profiles that is tuned for higher quality in that way until the kinks get worked out.

Agree. From what I've tested so far, the MK2 profiles serve that purpose.

Posted : 22/12/2017 10:49 pm
JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: poor print quality



I think that in an effort to push all of the profiles to higher speed they have become less stable across the small differences between individual machines. One of the single simplest things to do to improve print quality that you can do is to simply print slower, and it would be nice to at least have a set of profiles that is tuned for higher quality in that way until the kinks get worked out.

Agree. From what I've tested so far, the MK2 profiles serve that purpose.

I should add that I am getting good prints from slic3r 1.38.5 after adjusting extrusion, but with some ringing.

Posted : 22/12/2017 11:21 pm
Bigdogbro1
(@bigdogbro1)
Estimable Member
Re: poor print quality



I tightened up my Y belt so it feels similar to the X belt. However, the self test barely moved, Y=276. I'm not sure how confident I am in those readings. But belt tensions feel equal and are both taught, similar to MK2.

I checked e-steps and they are perfect out of the box. 100mm = 100mm. MK2 was notorious for under-extruding; many people finding about 5% under. But the print quality and mechanical fit of prints was fantastic. So I tend to want to cheat that direction. I printed the test objects and they measure over so I am adjusting.

gorkish, I think you have an error in your spreadsheet. The extrusion is on two faces, so the over/under error needs to be divided by 2. Your first div 2 is to average the inside / outside extrusion error, but need another div 2 to account for the two faces for each.

So far new slic3r seems to be working without going through octoprint. Early test prints are much smoother now that the over-extrusion is fixed. I think I am still seeing ringing though.

I compared the g-code between MK2 and MK3 Marvin. Two extra commands for MK3: M115 and M900. Anyone know the purpose of M115?

Other difference is MK3 has tons of M204 acceleration adjustments. Maybe that is the cause of the ringing.

I've been able to dial down everything...

My printer puts out almost "perfect" prints.... almost because im still having lots of ringing... didnt noticed at first but its there and quite obvious... specially if i compare the prints with my old printer.

Accelaration settings is probably the culprit here like you said...

Remove the filament spool from the top frame and try another print.

MK3 Kit, Designed, built 4x4 CNC Plasma Cutting Table, Motorcycles Bigdogbro's Adventures
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5djrxBeeOKB9_6rHnn6G8A...
Posted : 23/12/2017 2:08 am
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