PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue
 
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Alec
 Alec
(@alec)
Eminent Member
PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Hi,

I recently bought my first rolls of prusament PETG and a powder coated steel sheet but I have adhesion issues. At first I had some problems with finding the correct Z, after I found it I was able to get one good print out of it. One day later I wanted to do some other prints and they kept on failing. The PETG did not adhere thus ruining the print. So I did the Live z calibration again but this time nothing would stick,  i tested several heights but almost all the time the PETG curls up to the nozzle creating this heap around the nozzle. I did this test several times with several heights and no succes. 

The prusa helpdesk gave me a tip to clean out the nozzle with a cold pull but this had no effect (nozzle seemed clean as well). 

So extra info: I use IPA (99%) to clean; I have no enclosure; for the successful print I used a prusament PETG presets + Pretty PET (worked well)

Regarding the first layer calibration, i noticed this is done on 230°C Nozzle and 85°C heatbed while prusament advertises: nozzle 240-260°C & Heatbed 70°C-90°C. Could this have an influence? Note that a regular calibration worked at some point for me. 

I am a bit stuck at the moment. Does someone have any tips/ideas?

Thanks in advance!

This topic was modified 3 years ago by Alec
Posted : 04/10/2020 1:55 pm
GKMAKEIT
(@gkmakeit)
Estimable Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Hey,

Wash your build plate with the hottest water you can get and handle from you faucet and dish soap, something like unscented dawn soap. Handle the build plate only on the edges for better results.

Do a first layer calibration again. The pre-sliced gcode is for PLA, you can take the stl and slice it for PETG.

 

This post was modified 3 years ago by GKMAKEIT
Posted : 04/10/2020 2:25 pm
Dave liked
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Yes, the temperatures could affect the first player.  

My top two things I always do with the first layer failures:  

  1. Clean the bed:  IPA is often insufficient but you can start there.  I often scrub the bed with a Greener Clean scrub sponges and Dawn Dish Washing Liquid.  I buy them locally, the links are from the US Amazon store for you to see images.  I can provide international products that work if you are not from USA.   The bottom line is a sponge that will not excessively scratch the bed.  
  2. Adjust your Live Z: PLA is very tolerant of a Z that is too low or too high.  Too low will cause it to flex up and stick to the hotend and nozzle.  Too high will not stick,  Prusament appears to be a little more sensitive to live Z than some brands I have owned.    

Be patient and record your results in a notebook to refer back to in the future.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 04/10/2020 2:28 pm
Alec
 Alec
(@alec)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Hi Guys, 

Prusa is quite clear to not wash this sheet with water.. What do you guys think?

Posted : 04/10/2020 2:52 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

@alec

I have done it for 2 years plus and the sheets still work.  The key is dring it thoroughly and heating to evaporate the water ASAP after washing it.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 04/10/2020 3:04 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue
Posted by: @alec

[...] Prusa is quite clear to not wash this sheet with water.. What do you guys think?

There's no warranty on the textured sheets. If you're not having any luck with adhesion following the official guidelines, there's nothing to lose by trying additional measures. Just dry it by heating after a wash.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 04/10/2020 3:04 pm
Alec
 Alec
(@alec)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

And what about changing the first layer calibration nozzle/heatbed temperature?

Posted : 04/10/2020 3:06 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue
Posted by: @alec

And what about changing the first layer calibration nozzle/heatbed temperature?

If your sheet works using Prusa guidelines, you're good. Just do that. There is variability in the sheets. For some, a wash fixes problems. Others sand theirs.

I had a turd that wouldn't work reliably with any material or treatment. Do what you need to do.

I ultimately picked up a 3rd party textured sheet that does everything the Prusa was supposed to, so abandoned the Prusa sheet and sent it off for testing. Details here

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 04/10/2020 3:37 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

@alec

First layer Calibration or z height (live Z) was in the two suggestions I gave you.  The temperature may also work, btu that is less common to cause this problem.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 04/10/2020 4:07 pm
Alec
 Alec
(@alec)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

@charles-h13

I will tinker a bit more with that. What I also noticed that whenever a blob forms around the nozzle (usually in the beginning due to the nozzle being to high=>blood around nozzles or being too low=> nozzle scoops up the filament), the whole first layer calibration fails regardless of further corrections. Any tips to avoid this? 

Posted : 04/10/2020 5:31 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

@alec

I did paint my nozzle in Slice Engineerings anti-stick compound.  I have found it helps. 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 04/10/2020 5:53 pm
Alec
 Alec
(@alec)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Hi again, 

In the meantime I was able to do some more testing without any succes. I did a bunch of calibrations and washed the sheet but without any effect. The helpdesk gave a tip too loosen the idler and warm-up the heatbed to 90°C but this didn't help. I always end-up with the same scenario: or the layers adhere but are way too close to the heatbed or it is just a bit higher and it clogs to the nozzle. I added another picture to illustrate.

I am quite stuck. Might there be a nozzle issue??

Posted : 06/10/2020 6:44 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

I don’t think this is a nozzle issue.  Can you adjust it up o.o50 and posts a picture of th print?

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 06/10/2020 7:07 pm
ewr2san
(@ewr2san)
Trusted Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

I posted my process in a newer post:

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-how-do-i-print-this-printing-help/problems-wit-adhesion-of-petg/

To add to what you have here. Yes, you can use Hot Water occasionally, but first try Name Brand Windex.   It is "Safer" in that it is less likely to cause rust or remain trapped in contact with the steel.

I recommend Hairspray over scuffing the sheet, and IMO it's better than gluestick.

Posted : 08/10/2020 6:14 pm
ewr2san
(@ewr2san)
Trusted Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

The other thing that I'd add is to try 7x7 levelling based on your photo, and that your live Z is too low.
Raise it up a bit, use hairspray, and aim for the line looking just a little squished not flat like your picture is.

Posted : 08/10/2020 6:20 pm
Alec
 Alec
(@alec)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Thanks for the tips, i will test it. 

I also noticed that the standard first layer calibration for PETG takes place on 230°C nozzle T while the advertised T for Prusament is between 240-260. Could this also be the reason?

 

Posted : 08/10/2020 6:24 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

@alec

Yes

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 08/10/2020 7:30 pm
ewr2san
(@ewr2san)
Trusted Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

Yea, depending on the colour I would say that 230 is a smidge low.  Ive not tried Prusament Orange.. But Red likes 245, as does Black.  Silver liked 240 for me.   Hotter=Stickier, and easier flow (but more stringing).   I err on the side of slightly hotter, as I prefer stringing to poor layer adhesion.

Posted : 08/10/2020 7:44 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Famed Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

I've had great luck printing on the textured sheet with PETg.

If anything, it sticks a bit too well.

#include <shameless_plug_layerneer_bed_weld.h>

Posted : 08/10/2020 7:46 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: PETG Prusament + Powder Coated Steel Sheet Adhesion issue

@jsw

Prusament - yes.  A few other brands stick too much.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 08/10/2020 7:52 pm
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