MK3S problems printing a lot of small objects  

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michael.cwienczek
(@michael-cwienczek)
New Member

Hi,

 

I've been a happy prusa user for a while now. Recently, my friend asked me to print Falcon Heavy replica for him. Unfortuately after trying multiple things I still cannot get this print to even start correctly.

I use ColorFabb PLA Economy. I have already tried lowering down extruder temp from 215 to 205 (by 5C steps) and I was able to get rid of some stringing. However, it looks like after a few layers, the nozzle catches one of the small parts out of the bed and destroys other objects while moving around. I also tried to increase bed temp to 75C. Still the same issue. I am enclosing the pictures below. 

 

Any advice appreciated. Thank you.

 

This topic was modified 1 month ago 2 times by michael.cwienczek
Posted : 16/09/2020 12:35 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

Id prefer to see a proper 1 layer thick 75x75 square to see for sure but just from the skirt line alone it looks like you could do with going down on your live z slightly to get more squish (and therefore bed adhesion).  The left side in particular looks quite rounded. 

Could you save the project please and zip it up and attach it here.  (must be zipped or the forum wont accept it).  Id like to slice it and get a closer look at the first layer on the bottom of those parts.  Even with a really clean bed and good squish those look like some pretty tall.thin parts for such a small amount of surface to print without a brim or even some support.  Which is only going to get worse the further up they get due to leverage.

Posted : 17/09/2020 8:52 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Prominent Member

If I were doing this, which I am not 😉 I would do the larger objects and the smaller objects in separate batches.

I would also print those objects on the right in a separate batch and use a raft.

I've found that trying to do too many smaller objects in one batch is counterproductive as far as time management is concerned, particularly with objects that have small footprints and have the tendency to break away.  One detached object can ruin the whole batch and waste a lot of time and filament.

Also, I'll give yet another plug for the Layerneer Bed Weld to help assure that things stick for sure.

Posted : 17/09/2020 10:36 am
Dan.p12
(@dan-p12)
Trusted Member

I think its got more to do with the orientation of your parts then anything, the contact points are very small, to small from the look of it, and if elephant foot compensation is turned on by default you are loosing even more contact.

In my 75C is to high a bed temp for PLA its Vicat temp averages around 54C (give or take a couple degrees) I wouldn't go to much higher then 60 or 65 on bed temp for most brands.

If you find you have to print the parts in there currently shown orientation I would add a brim to each.

 

Posted : 18/09/2020 4:13 am
michael.cwienczek
(@michael-cwienczek)
New Member

Thanks everyone for help! I have an update from the print. Almost everything got printer, but I had to add supports. No idea if I can manage to print that without supports. I think I will have to split the print into smaller parts then, as you suggest. It will take more time probably, but as far as I hear you, the reliability of the print will be better.

Things I did: bed temp: 80C, filament temp: 208 first layer, 204C other layers, supports on build plate only

Posted : 18/09/2020 10:00 am
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Noble Member

That bed temp for pla is way too high.  The bottom where it touches the bed will be soft and so defeats the object of support.  Also I think that a brim would work better than support but until we can see the project its hard to tell for sure.

This post was modified 1 month ago by Neophyl
Posted : 18/09/2020 11:08 am
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@michael-cwienczek

I have to second the Layerneer Bed Weld or suggest Aquanet Hair Spray.  I use one or the other often.  It prevents me from having to use brims.   90% of the time the hair spray works.  I have never had Layerneer fail.  Aqua net is easier to apply.  

Posted : 18/09/2020 12:35 pm
michael.cwienczek
(@michael-cwienczek)
New Member

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I live in Europe and I couldn't find any of those products on amazon.de. I will try to find equivalents, though.

Posted : 18/09/2020 1:19 pm
Dan.p12
(@dan-p12)
Trusted Member

https://www.amazon.de/Elmers-Washable-School-Glue-Stick/dp/B0016822SS/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=3OQDG7THFONK&dchild=1&keywords=elmers+glue+stick+purple&qid=1600440253&sprefix=elmers+glue%2Caps%2C295&sr=8-2

 

This works every bit as good as those other products, its cheaper and works on a wider verity of materials.

its available on  amazon.de.

But read the other posts about bed temp bonding and object orientation, because you don't need any extra products to print that PLA you need to rethink you part placement.

Good luck, 

Posted : 18/09/2020 3:48 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@michael-cwienczek

There are similar products in Europe:  

  1. Dimafix Spray
  2. 3DLac
  3. Dimafix adhesive pen

 

Posted : 18/09/2020 4:28 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @michael-cwienczek

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I live in Europe and I couldn't find any of those products on amazon.de. I will try to find equivalents, though.

3DLac is much touted and apparently sourced from Europe. I've also seen suggestions that it's just repackaged, expensive hair spray, so there's that. Have not tried it myself. I personally don't like spraying anything around the printer, or that requires going outside on cold winter mornings.

I've used Layerneer (squeeze bottle), MagiGoo (squeeze bottle) and glue stick (tube). They all work. Glue stick applications tend to accumulate quickly and unevenly and will eventually require a scrape and wash of the bed. MagiGoo and (at least initial by initial impression) Layerneer work very well as a release agent but do peel off and require refresh and an eventual bed clean. By far, the tidiest stuff I've used in Vision Miner's Nano Polymer application (small bottle). It goes on very thinly -- you squirt it on the bed and scrape it thin with a plastic card -- lasts a very long time and is quite effective at adhesion. It was the first booster I tried that made a big difference on my badly warped Sidewinder glass bed. It doesn't seem to peel and require a wash like some of the others. It seems expensive, but if you compare per-ounce costs, it's competitive.

In general, I hate adding crap to the PEI. If you've cleaned and properly calibrated Live-Z, you should only be need something to help release sticky materials like PETG, or with particularly difficult prints. For everyday printing, clean PEI should work very well. I feel bad for users that try to avoid learning about cleaning and calibrating by just slathering on stuff.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 18/09/2020 4:34 pm
GkMakeIt
(@gkmakeit)
Estimable Member

@bobstro

"In general, I hate adding crap to the PEI. If you've cleaned and properly calibrated Live-Z, you should only be need something to help release sticky materials like PETG, or with particularly difficult prints. For everyday printing, clean PEI should work very well. I feel bad for users that try to avoid learning about cleaning and calibrating by just slathering on stuff"

I highly agree with this statement!

Before thinking about putting anything on my print surface I want to make sure I've got all my calibrations right and best as possible. (I only use smooth PEI and never had to use anything on them) Also go through the settings in the slicer to see if there's anything that can help with the prints outcome. In most cases unless it's a very unusual part you should be able to find a way to print without adding "stuff" to the print surface.

The things I would look into especially when trying to do lots of small parts scattered all over the print bed.

Use 7x7 mesh leveling.

Make sure the print surface is level and flat.

Make sure the print surface is clean.

Make sure first layer calibration is correct.

Find the right printing temperatures for the filament.

Use a brim and or raft if needed.

 

Posted : 18/09/2020 5:01 pm
GkMakeIt
(@gkmakeit)
Estimable Member

Not sure what speed you are printing at, but might want to slow it down on the smaller parts.

 

Posted : 18/09/2020 5:09 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member
Posted by: @bobstro
Posted by: @michael-cwienczek

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I live in Europe and I couldn't find any of those products on amazon.de. I will try to find equivalents, though.

In general, I hate adding crap to the PEI. If you've cleaned and properly calibrated Live-Z, you should only be need something to help release sticky materials like PETG, or with particularly difficult prints. For everyday printing, clean PEI should work very well. I feel bad for users that try to avoid learning about cleaning and calibrating by just slathering on stuff.

In general, you are correct.  This is true for a new sheet.  As they age, they lose or gain adhesiveness.  The ones at losing it need help.  

You can also slow it down.  With hairspray, I can avoid slowing it down.  

Posted : 18/09/2020 5:20 pm
Dan.p12
(@dan-p12)
Trusted Member

Good luck selling that on ebay.

Posted : 19/09/2020 4:35 am
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@dan-p12

Selling what on eBay?

Posted : 19/09/2020 4:49 am
Dan.p12
(@dan-p12)
Trusted Member

The rocket model.

Posted : 19/09/2020 3:53 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@dan-p12

I sell a few on eBay.  They sell pretty well.  

Posted : 19/09/2020 5:02 pm
Dan.p12
(@dan-p12)
Trusted Member

yeah I was looking at the prices, and some of them are pretty nice looking. anyway just wishing him luck

Posted : 20/09/2020 12:24 am
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