Bed adhesion with polycarbonate question  

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Chocki
(@chocki)
Prominent Member

I have tried polycarbonate a number of times and have always had too much bed adhesion, this is on Black buildtak where it welds itself to the surface, and blue decorators tape, this end up peeling from the steel sheet resulting in warping of the print, plus I can never remove it from the print afterwards.

I have tried the glue stick as a release agent but cant seem to make it work. Does someone have a picture of how much should be applied?, do you need to wipe it smooth or some other processing before using it?.

I read today about using hair spray direct on the metal sheet (No PEI etc, just bare metal) and printing onto this, has anyone tried this with polycarbonate?.

The spray recommended is this: Got2b Glued Blasting Freeze Hairspray

Currently destroying another (last one) builtak sheet as I need to print this part.

It had better fit first time!...

 

Thanks.

This topic was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Chocki
Normal people believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet....
Posted : 03/03/2021 9:22 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Noble Member

I don't use Buildtak, but I've had good luck with both Layerneer and glue stick printing PC Blend on the regular PEI Prusa sheet.  As with ABS, I always let it cool down to almost room temperature before attempting removal.  In my not so humble opinion, the PC Blend seems to release easier than ABS.

I know that the Prusa folks warn you to use a release agent with their PC Blend and even include a glue stick (or at least they used to) with every spool of it.

Posted : 04/03/2021 1:34 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Honorable Member

They still include it, and they mention the PC blend is the only time you should use glue on your textured powder coated sheets. I use glue often on mine, and so far so good. I have never used builtak, however when I apply my glue for PC Blend I apply it twice. I put on the first layer let it dry completely then apply a second layer in the opposite direction # crisscross style.

Also, allow the sheet/print to cool to room temperature (completely inside & out) and then put it in the freezer for about 20 min after (YMMV) I've found this to be very helpful when trying to release stubborn prints.

Good Luck hope this helps

This post was modified 2 months ago by Swiss_Cheese
Posted : 04/03/2021 6:00 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Noble Member

Hmmmm ... I really don't recall reading any blanket Party Line admonitions against using glue stick on the textured sheet.  I too used it regularly before learning about Layerneer.  I end up using Layerneer more often than not on the textured sheet.  For ABS and PETg as a release agent.  I sure don't want to pull pieces of the textured coating off, and yes, I always let the print on the sheet cool down to almost room temperature before trying to remove it.  I haven't had to use the freezer (yet?) but for a couple large footprint ABS prints I've used the refrigerator when they did not want to readily release.

I use Layerneer on the textured sheet to give the adhesion a boost for PLA prints.  It absolutely prevents warping and curl-up on the corners and it gives a very solid hold to the first layer of those small 'square wave' support footings.  One application lasts for several prints, but I do kind of buff it with a paper towel soaked with IPA between prints.  It goes on thin, and does not leave the marks on the bottom of the print the way glue stick will. 

Posted : 04/03/2021 6:33 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Honorable Member

I’ve used both Layerneer and glue stick successfully. I have also used neither of those and successfully destroyed my smooth sheet 😒

Like @swiss_cheese I apply it in a crosswise pattern and rather err on the side of too much than too little. 

Posted : 04/03/2021 3:50 pm
g monkey
(@g-monkey)
Trusted Member

@chocki  I have only used a PC blend (Prusament or Polymax), and a single layer of glue stick on the smooth PEI sheet works fine.  Usually flexing the sheet is enough to get them to release but if the parts are too small this doesn't work.  Then I have resorted to soaking it in water, leaving it in the freezer for 15 minutes, or even putting a wooden block against it and then whacking the block with something.  What size parts are you printing?

Posted : 04/03/2021 5:51 pm
Peter M
(@peter-m)
Prominent Member

You could try to spay alcohol on the bed, and then go over it with glue stick,  do this with the glue stick several times to get a thin layer.

You get at least not a thick layer with this.

Posted : 05/03/2021 11:55 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@jsw

I use gluestick still to this day.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 05/03/2021 12:02 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

What is: Got2b Glued Blasting Freeze Hairspray?  I looked it up on Amazon.  How does it work?

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 05/03/2021 12:04 pm
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Honorable Member

@jsw

Print sheet preparation

Prusament PC Blend can be printed on both smooth and textured print sheets. However, it’s required to spread a separating agent on the sheet before you start printing, otherwise the adhesion of the print may be too strong. The best way to prepare your print sheet is to apply a thin layer of paper glue onto the sheet. This is why we bundle a paper glue stick (KORES) to every PC Blend spool for free. Failing to add a separating layer may lead to the damage to your print sheet! While our documentation states that it’s not advised to apply glue onto the powder-coated textured steel sheet, the PC Blend is an exception. Do not use the glue onto the powder-coated textured steel sheet when printing with other materials (PLA, PETG, ASA, Flex, and others)!

just to avoid any confusion, it's your sheet do as you like.

Enjoy

Posted : 06/03/2021 1:20 am
AnnieR
(@annier)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @cwbullet

What is: Got2b Glued Blasting Freeze Hairspray?  I looked it up on Amazon.  How does it work?

It's just a firm hold hairspray. You can get it anywhere. 

I use it on myself as well as the printer with the ferrotype plate. 

I get it at Ulta, but I've seen it at places like CVS and Walmart. If you ask they will know exactly what you are talking about. 

There are several products in the line. 

Oh, don't try substituting Gorilla Glue!

This post was modified 2 months ago by AnnieR
Posted : 06/03/2021 5:44 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@annier

Thanks.  I might have to try it.  As a bald guy, I get funny looks when I buy it.  I have purchased more hair care products this year than the prior 20 years.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 06/03/2021 6:04 pm
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Honorable Member

@Charles

you should throw a bottle of volumizing shampoo up on the counter next time, with the hair spray. 😉 

Posted : 06/03/2021 6:46 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@swiss_cheese

That will get me a few looks.  I guess I could use it on my beard if I ever grow one.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 06/03/2021 7:13 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@annier

It does not near as good as Aquanet.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 09/03/2021 2:07 am
Chocki
(@chocki)
Prominent Member

The got2b hair spray direct on steel does not grip polycarbonate well enough, it works, but I would not trust leaving it.

Now, spraying in onto the buildtack black, that's more like it!, I'm still experimenting with how much to apply, spaying lots so the surface is smooth wet is too much, you can print on it, but again, leaves the bond too weak in my opinion.

Going to spray less and try on the next prints, oh and it washes off easily using water.

Not much life in this buildtack sheet, the PC sticks too well even with the gluestick as it is difficult to get a smooth even layer.

The gluestick just left too an uneven surface for me, this seems like a lot better an idea.

Got a FYSETC textured PEI sheet arriving tomorrow, will try it with PC and got2b hairspray as a release agent.

 

To be fair, I dont trust the adhesion with a good coating of hairspray, but I have to admit the current print with 4 parts spread out is printing without any issues so far, but they wont warp much anyway so maybe not the best test.

Normal people believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet....
Posted : 13/03/2021 9:07 pm
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