Problems with Prusa Slicer usability  

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DarkKnight
(@darkknight)
Active Member

I'm trying to use Prusa Slicer 2.3. I see that the print host upload settings have been moved behind another click instead of just having the tab it used to. Today, I'm trying to use a different nozzle diameter, and it seems like all I'm doing is fighting the software to keep a consistent idea of which printer I'm using. It's producing numerous user presets, each one consistently erasing the upload settings so that I have to re-add them over and over again. There seems to be no correct setting for .25mm nozzle AND MMU. When I clear all user presets and use the wizard to include a .25mm setting, it puts it in as (single) and I have to recreate the MMU extruder settings. When I do this, the print host & thumbnail settings get erased. When I fix them both, I no longer have any selectable layer height presets and have to start from scratch. Extremely frustrating.

This is a mess. Why on gods green earth would you hide the 'physical printer upload' setting behind yet another popup menu that already includes drop boxes for different printers? You then need to 'give it a name' and it will create yet ANOTHER preset. The name 'Prusa' is now in so many places in the software I feel like I'm in a 60's era Batman TV show. To the BAT PRINTER!

The software has become a huge PITA to use since I started with the MMU & 2.3. The entire 'Printer settings' tab should be representative of a single physical printer with a single upload host. It should not need an entirely separate popup and preset just to add an Octoprint destination.

What I need is the software to understand that I have one printer, with one upload queue, with potentially different nozzles and layer settings. As it is, everytime I make any change, it erases the upload settings and I have make a whole new preset. It's just incredibly frustrating. 

Posted : 25/02/2021 2:20 pm
DarkKnight
(@darkknight)
Active Member

I should add to this that on top of everything else, there is some graphical glitch that makes the pointless 'settings cog' disappear. 

Posted : 25/02/2021 2:28 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @darkknight

[...] This is a mess. Why on gods green earth would you hide the 'physical printer upload' setting behind yet another popup menu that already includes drop boxes for different printers? 

Prusa made some breaking changes to how profiles and dependencies are set up with v2.3.0. I've documented as much as I've discovered in my notes here. The current GUI is very clunky, but it actually works pretty smoothly under the hood. I'm having the best luck just maintaining config bundles and not trying to do anything complex in the GUI. Based on past history, I expect Prusa has done the hard work under the hood, but it will take some time for GUI usability to catch up.

The software has become a huge PITA to use since I started with the MMU & 2.3. The entire 'Printer settings' tab should be representative of a single physical printer with a single upload host. It should not need an entirely separate popup and preset just to add an Octoprint destination.

I disagree. I like the idea of the "print server" (e.g., OctoPrint data identify one server, not really a "printer") that might control many printers. I would ALSO like nozzles/extruders to be separated from the printer. I use 9 different nozzle sizes and find it annoying to maintain 9 "printer" profiles that are identical in all aspects (e.g., gcode) other than the nozzle. I'd prefer to just set up a nozzle/extruder. I don't use a MMU but I suspect this would make that easier as well. 

What I need is the software to understand that I have one printer, with one upload queue, with potentially different nozzles and layer settings. As it is, everytime I make any change, it erases the upload settings and I have make a whole new preset. It's just incredibly frustrating. 

Agreed the GUI is behind and usability "sub-optimal" at this time. The good news is that it works well under the hood. Managing configuration bundle files isn't all that tedious and ensures consistency, at least for now.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 25/02/2021 8:53 pm
DarkKnight
(@darkknight)
Active Member

So I literally cannot get the slicer to output code that the printer will print at this point. It doesn’t seem possible to save a configuration that has 1) the upload target defined, 2) a different nozzle, 3) multiple extruders, and 4) filament settings

Even when I finagle the settings and don’t ‘save’ the configuration the code it outputs with multiple extruders explicitly set, will STILL cause the printer to ask which filament I want to use on startup. 

Using an MMU, there seems to be only one option of software to use. Given that, the printer is only as good as the software. Right now, it’s completely unusable for me due to the clunkiness of the software. This is simply unacceptable for a nearly $1,500 printer.

 

Posted : 26/02/2021 12:19 am
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Prominent Member

@darkknight

Obviously they didn't upgrade the max length when they added Mk3s+. Have you reported this on github?

I'm sure your aware of this but if you don't use OctoPrint, you can ignore the whole physical printer thing.

If I might make a suggestion, do a reinstall and select all nozzles in the config wizard and all the filaments you use.

Posted : 26/02/2021 10:34 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Honorable Member

@DarkKnight:

I feel your pain. The changes are a mixed blessing.

If you have more than one identical printer, it’s great to have the printer settings separated from the connection settings. You can make changes in one place, and every physical printer (with its own controller) gets updated.

Not so good if you have only one printer and change nozzles frequently. Now things get messy.

And then what if you have multiple printers AND you change nozzles but not in the same way for each (like me)? It’s a bit chaotic but doable, and still beats writing files to SD cards.

I hope in future versions they come up with a more streamlined approach.

Posted : 26/02/2021 1:39 pm
DarkKnight
(@darkknight)
Active Member

@towlerg

I do use octoprint, but even bypassing this process entirely does not produce a usable Goode file. I hope to get some time this evening to do battle with the software again and see if I can at least get a correctly printable file.

There are something like 1,700 open issues on github. Seems like they need to focus some more resources on software development. FWIW, I have reset (deleted) all the user profiles in 2.3 several times. There is at least one major issue with ‘compatible printers’ in the configuration files blocking filament profiles from being applied correctly when you choose a different nozzle profile. 

@fuchsr

I don’t understand how they can release the software as a ‘final’ version with it so broken. I didn’t receive my MMU until after 2.3 was released, but I was thinking about trying 2.2 and seeing if that will at least produce printable multi-filament gcode since a lot of these ‘breaking changes’ were made in 2.3. There is also another fork of Slicer that I was playing with, but did not get to use before 2.3 released. I may try that as well.

 

Posted : 26/02/2021 3:23 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @darkknight

[...]  There is at least one major issue with ‘compatible printers’ in the configuration files blocking filament profiles from being applied correctly when you choose a different nozzle profile. 

I do think Prusa is trying too hard to use the compatible printers and dependencies to restrict specific profiles to specific hardware combinations. These filters are written using PERL regular expressions that are, at best, cumbersome. This made sense back in Slic3r when printers were simpler devices. There are a lot more options now with MMU, nozzles, and filament variations. IMO, it would be easier to simply make use of existing settings that aren't used or exposed in the GUI (e.g., printer_model) and perhaps add a few more (e.g., for the MMU) to allow users to build and understand dependencies more clearly. I've written up some notes on how I think it's all working now.

The filaments are a bit of a mess. I've got a copy of the filament presets as of December 2020 here with all the dependencies removed so they'll work with any printer.

[...] I don’t understand how they can release the software as a ‘final’ version with it so broken.

Most likely because the same number of people were demanding a new release with all the cool features as are complaining about problems now. Prusa is truly in a no-win situation, so they've put out software -- that by the way, is as good or better than any other slicer in terms of basic features and ease-of-use -- that works for most cases, realizing that it won't be perfect for everybody but continuing to work on it. 2.3.0 was a major upgrade in functionality, so I don't think it's fair to criticize Prusa for not dedicating enough effort.

I didn’t receive my MMU until after 2.3 was released, but I was thinking about trying 2.2 and seeing if that will at least produce printable multi-filament gcode since a lot of these ‘breaking changes’ were made in 2.3. There is also another fork of Slicer that I was playing with, but did not get to use before 2.3 released. I may try that as well.

I can sympathize with your plight, but I think your approach is self-defeating. Rather than posting with a complaint about PrusaSlicer, you're likely to get a lot more help by starting a new thread with a subject line that describes your problem. Try something like "Need help using MMU with PrusaSlicer". I, and I'm sure many others, aren't as likely to jump into a complaint thread as to try to help somebody trying to solve a problem. Rather than gripe about the software, spell out exactly what you've tried and what's not working. All I can gather from what you've posted so far is that you're not happy and "it doesn't work". There are plenty of people who are getting good results with the MMU2, but they have no way of knowing that this thread is about that device based on your subject line. Save a project file with your settings and part, zip it up, and attach it to an initial post describing the problem for best results.

This post was modified 2 months ago 3 times by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 26/02/2021 3:36 pm
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Prominent Member

@fuchsr

I don't understand your problem with Prusaslicer and nozzels. I may be missing something but don't you just create a profile for each nozzle see attached

Posted : 27/02/2021 10:02 am
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Prominent Member

@darkknight

Upfront I hear your frustration and I don't use MMU so I can't speak to that but if compatible printers and dependencies is getting in your way just delete them.

As for all the github open issues, how many of them are feature requests?

Oops just realized Bob already suggested getting rid of dependencies.

This post was modified 2 months ago by towlerg
Posted : 27/02/2021 10:14 am
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Honorable Member

@towlerg

I think you just made my point. So for one printer with four nozzle configurations you end up with four physical printer And for each additional printer you add another set of presets:

Look, it works. But… wasn’t the initial intent of Physical Printers to separate connection information from other attributes, which I applaud? Like in my example, all presets for Astro1 have the same connection information. I already have Printer Presets for  each nozzle that are shared across the Physical Printers.  So it seems to be against the spirit of the original intent to require me to create all these extra presets.

I don’t claim to have the UI/UX answer. One possibility is this:

Offer an option to define a physical printers. This will give names to Octoprint/AstroPrint/etc controllers and associate it with IP address and passwords/API codes. It will NOT require you to select printer presets, like it does today.

Then add another pop up to the panel on the right, in addition to Print Settings, Filament, and Printer, that shows you your all the Physical Printers you defined. Maybe rename Physical Printer to Network Connections to avoid confusion with Printers. (If you haven’t defined any, eg you’re printing from SD card or USB stick, the software may hide this menu).

Now in the example of 4 nozzle configs and 3 printers, you’ll end up with 4 Printer Presets under Printer, and 3 Physical entries under Network Connections (not 12).

To slice, you select one Print Setting, one Filament, one Printer, and one Network Connection. Voila. No redundancy.

Hey, I think I’m going to post this to GitHub…

I hope this explains where I’m coming from. Again, I have no problems working with the current system, I just don’t think it’s great and I believe it violates the original spirit of having Physical Printers to start with.

Posted : 27/02/2021 2:56 pm
HeneryH
(@heneryh)
Estimable Member

I've said this in another thread too...

All I want it so change the printer setup to include a "thumbnail", turn on "verbose g-code" and let me add a "virtual extruder".

In varying combinations.

Verbose g-code and thumbnail included would almost always be on because of my OctoPrint plug-ins.  Verbose mode helps my timelapse plug-in work and including the thumbnail helps with listing print jobs in OctoPrint with the image.

The virtual extruder would only be on when doing a manual 2-color job.

Oh, and it should go without saying that, all of the filament presets should remain available to all of them.

To do these things, evidently you need to to some hacks.

That shouldn't be so.

Posted : 27/02/2021 4:01 pm
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Prominent Member

@heneryh

this has been said before but if you don't want the slicer to select appropriate filaments and print conditions for the printer you are using then don't. Simply delete dependencies for Print settings/Filament/Printer and if you're not using a third party mechanism to avoid using SD cards then don't bother with physical printers.

@fuchsr

"Like in my example, all presets for Astro1 have the same connection information. I already have Printer Presets for each nozzle that are shared across the Physical Printers. So it seems to be against the spirit of the original intent to require me to create all these extra presets."

You make the creation of additional presents sound like a big PITA but in reality it's 3 button clicks.

I'm sure you are aware that not all filaments nor all print settings are appropriate for all nozzles.

Prusa (and Slicr before) is targeted at the average 3d printer user (thus the simple/advanced/expert option) .

I guess we are going to have to agree to differ. But you always have the option of posting your issues on github, there atleast you'll get to speak to the devs.

 

Posted : 28/02/2021 10:03 am
HeneryH
(@heneryh)
Estimable Member

@towlerg

You seem defensive about the PrusaSlicer.

Can you please tell me the steps to turn on Verbose G-Code setting for a Prusa MK3s and then print with Prusament Filament?

I say this sucks because I cannot make the simple thing noted work without lots of confusing steps.

When I set the 'verbose g-code' setting then I must save the print profile to a new profile and then lose all of my preset filament settings.

I look forward to your steps and rationale for why those steps are necessary and good.

Posted : 28/02/2021 4:20 pm
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Prominent Member

@heneryh

Not so much defensive, rather I don't wish Prusa to lose interest in further development.

Your question re. verbose GCode, sorry can't help, as I can't conceive of any reason why a non-dev user would wish to do that.

Select each preset in turn, click save current settings, then edit that profile. If you don't mess dependencies your new profiles will inherit update changes. 

 

Posted : 28/02/2021 7:17 pm
HeneryH
(@heneryh)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @towlerg

@heneryh

Not so much defensive, rather I don't wish Prusa to lose interest in further development.

Your question re. verbose GCode, sorry can't help, as I can't conceive of any reason why a non-dev user would wish to do that.

Select each preset in turn, click save current settings, then edit that profile. If you don't mess dependencies your new profiles will inherit update changes. 

 

So you don't want to hear criticism because it might hurt the developers feelings????

The reason I want to use Verbose G-Code is that the OctoLapse plug-in (ever heard of  it) suggest that it be turned on so that it makes better decisions on where to take snapshots.  In fact, OctoLapse throws warning/errors if it isn't on.

The reason I want to include thumbnails is that there are plug-ins that include the thumbnail in the print logs.

The reason I want to have virtual extruders is there are ways to do multi-color prints.

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to do. And in fact there are UI settings to make these changes.

Your suggestion to turn on a setting in the UI is to save settings and edit the files?  What is the point of the UI setting then if I need to edit the files?  And, any time I make a new printer profile I then lose all ability to use any of the filament presets.

Can you please just tell me how a user can make any single change to a Prusa printer setting then make a print using Prusament filament using the Prusa Slicer.  Please.  Literally any printer setting at all.  Just tell me how to make that that change and use completely Prusa branded product to make a new print.

Your

This post was modified 2 months ago by HeneryH
Posted : 28/02/2021 7:31 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @heneryh

[...] The reason I want to use Verbose G-Code is that the OctoLapse plug-in (ever heard of  it) suggest that it be turned on so that it makes better decisions on where to take snapshots.  In fact, OctoLapse throws warning/errors if it isn't on.

Verbose gcode is also required for the cancel objects plugin to function. It's a mostly harmless option if you're using OctoPrint, since OP strips out comments when sending gcode to the printer.

The reason I want to include thumbnails is that there are plug-ins that include the thumbnail in the print logs.

OctoPrint can also display thumbnails from Cura and PrusaSlicer, which gives you the nice Mini-like display when using a Mk3.

The reason I want to have virtual extruders is there are ways to do multi-color prints.

They're also useful for testing purposes when calibrating extruder settings like retraction. 

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to do. And in fact there are UI settings to make these changes.

Yes, there are. There are a few things still not exposed in the GUI, but it's pretty complete. The handling of 3rd party profiles is a bit clunky.

Your suggestion to turn on a setting in the UI is to save settings and edit the files?  What is the point of the UI setting then if I need to edit the files?  And, any time I make a new printer profile I then lose all ability to use any of the filament presets.

The dependencies for filaments are a weak spot, and I suspect Prusa is not done refining how they're handled. For today, you have two options:

  • Detach filament profiles individually from the Prusa printer profiles.
  • Import a config bundle with the dependencies removed as I described above.

I suspect Prusa made this move in response to the many cheap printer manufacturers who were parasiting Prusa's support resources by directing non-Prusa printer users to Prusa's support. Whatever profit Prusa makes on the sale of a printer isn't enough to provide endless support for another manufacturer's products. Considering they don't make money off PrusaSlicer directly, that makes good business sense to me. As they make future improvements, it's definitely something they need to work on.

Can you please just tell me how a user can make any single change to a Prusa printer setting then make a print using Prusament filament using the Prusa Slicer.  Please.  Literally any printer setting at all.  Just tell me how to make that that change and use completely Prusa branded product to make a new print.

Save custom profiles. Like it or not -- for today -- that's your answer. You can't modify the system profiles (again, logical from a support perspective), but you can save off all the custom profiles you want. Not a perfect process, but it works. Unless you simply can't work in a text editor, I'd suggest just maintaining a config bundle file to keep things tidy.

You've accused @t0welrg of being defensive, but to refuse to accept that there are some things you just can't get right away is being petulant. PrusaSlicer has come a long way in recent months, but it's obviously not perfect. The answer is that you can't do what you want right now. Or as the saying goes... "People in hell want icewater too." Thankfully, team Prusa continues to make continual improvements.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 28/02/2021 8:22 pm
HeneryH
(@heneryh)
Estimable Member

@bobstro

@towlerg

I've accepted the limitations of the software as is.  Just don't blow sunshine up my arse and tell me that there aren't problems and you can't conceive of any reason anyone would want to use any of the things that are troublesome.

Posted : 28/02/2021 8:30 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @heneryh

@bobstro [...] I've accepted the limitations of the software as is.  Just don't blow sunshine up my arse and tell me that there aren't problems and you can't conceive of any reason anyone would want to use any of the things that are troublesome.

I have gone to great lengths to detail workarounds. If you're this put off by people trying to help you, please go away. You're not adding to the community.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 28/02/2021 8:54 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

Here's the detach button for filament profiles:

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 28/02/2021 9:47 pm
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