Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.
 

Powder coated PEI sheet adhesion issues solved, presented in convenient meme format.  

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KTR
(@ktrpb)
Active Member

 

PLA sticks to the PC sheet perfectly if you just apply purple gluestick. Going on 14 hours now I've been running a print with lots of small parts and corners and features. Just smear the gluestick on like we did in the olden days. You can sit there and fight with live Z till you have your nozzle close enough to the bed to work as a scanning tunneling microscope, you can clean your PC sheet with piranha etch and hydrofluoric acid in an ISO Class I cleanroom, you can do all that if you want to so you know it's "right". Or, you can take thirty seconds and slather on some disappearing purple and get a better result anyway from your premium 800 dollar machine. The PC sheet is then useful as a durable, removable print surface that also provides a nice texture to your prints. The choice is yours.

Yes, I know it's not the "right way", but it's the way that worked for me, quickly.

Posted : 10/02/2020 8:35 pm
holmes4
(@holmes4)
Estimable Member

Bah. PLA and PETG sticks just fine to my Prusa textured sheet. Glue stick is actually a release agent, doesn't help adhesion. I wash my textured sheet in hot water and dish soap, use IPA between prints.

Posted : 11/02/2020 1:15 am
vintagepc liked
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member

Different strokes for different folks. I am glad he found something that works for him.

Posted : 11/02/2020 1:37 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

I tried MagiGoo on mine. Still no luck. I mean it works like what may have been the norm once upon a time, but crap compared to what was advertised and piss poor compared to the smooth sheets.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 11/02/2020 2:08 am
nathan.b20
(@nathan-b20)
Trusted Member

I've not experienced many issues with poor adhesion to my smooth or textured prusa pei sheets (though they're definitely wearing over time), and I think the quality of filament has a lot to do with reliability. But I agree that elmers is a fantastic gluestick and definitely improves adhesion properties for the first layer.

I've built a number of 3d printers over the years and experimented with many print surfaces and adhesion methods including numerous glue sticks, and elmers came out on top. It is easy to apply in consistent thin layers, allows the user to see where it's been applied (due to being purple), quickly dries clear as the heat bed warms, provides impressive adhesive and, once cooled, aids removal of prints.

Posted : 11/02/2020 6:09 am
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Reputable Member

"appropriate only for massive soulless print farms" I guess I'm missing your point but I would have though that it would be absolutely essential for prints to stick every time with little or no intervention in that environment. 

Posted : 11/02/2020 2:10 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@bobstro

Magigoo works great on glass.  I did not like it on my Prusa.  

Posted : 11/02/2020 2:32 pm
d. scott.m
(@d-scott-m)
New Member

I have found that if you prep the sheet with acetone it seems to activate the PEI.  I always wipe down with alcohol between prints, but it I start having a adherence issue, usually a wipe with acetone followed by alcohol solves the sticking (or lack of sticking) issue.  For some things, I do have to sometimes resort to glue sticks. Then I wash with warm water to eliminate the glue, then wipe with acetone.  That usually corrects the issue.

Posted : 11/02/2020 9:46 pm
KTR
(@ktrpb)
Active Member

Just saying, we could play with acetone, alcohol, or any number of organic solvents all day. Or, we could take thirty seconds to slather glue on the plate.

 

I am aware that there exist a multitude of maybe-perhaps solutions to getting a good first layer on a PC sheet, but one I know for sure requires no experimentation is the glue stick. The PC sheet is likely great for print farms, but if you have one, two, or maybe three printers, it's not that hard to just put gluestick on it.

 

I posted this mostly because we're sitting here throwing around numerous solutions, most of which are not guaranteed to work, and I wanted people to know that there's at least one solution that absolutely does work, first time, every time, all the time.

Posted : 13/02/2020 1:46 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

Well, this was interesting. I've been through my own trials and tribulations with the textured sheet, and have been unable to get any sort of usable adhesion, regardless of material. I was at the point that I was going to ship it off to someone else to test. I thought I'd tried most of the common-sense measures for PEI (wash with Dawn, acetone, buffing with pad) but somehow neglected to try the glue stick. I gave it one last try yesterday and was (somewhat) pleasantly surprised:

That's a full-bed print using 3D Solutech PLA with 0.5mm extrusion widths. Previously, parts of such a print would peel and curl badly. I was even able to complete a bed of small parts:

One part popped off but that appears to have happened during cool down. I'm not completely satisfied as I'm not able to complete one of the tall adhesion test towers, but this is a huge improvement from completely unusable to usable-with-supervision. I'm still disappointed in the sheet I have compared to the early hype and Prusa's corporate CYA response, but @ktrpb and others suggesting glue stick are on to something. I only wish Team Prusa had spent more time helping us find solutions before resorting to ninja-edits and changing product descriptions post-sale! I'm not happy messing with glue sticks and having the extra maintenance, but if this holds up, I might give the textured sheet a 7/10 rating.

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/02/2020 3:27 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@bobstro

What brand of glue stick?

Posted : 17/02/2020 3:53 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

What brand of glue stick?

I finished off the Kores tube that shipped with my printer nearly 2 years ago, but will pick up some purple Elmer's soon.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/02/2020 4:20 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

Elmers is ok.  Not as good as Kores or some others.  

Posted : 17/02/2020 4:33 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

Elmers is ok.  Not as good as Kores or some others.  

Any other brand readily available in the US that you'd recommend? I'm still disappointed that I have to resort to old-school slathering of glue to use my high-tech print surface, but I'd like to get some use out of it!

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/02/2020 4:45 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@bobstro

I will do a post on the ones I have tried.  I prefer Kore’s.  

Posted : 17/02/2020 5:26 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Noble Member

@bobstro what I find interesting is that you have a WA-15... same batch as me. 

My gluestick is still untouched in the box of spare parts. :-/

Posted : 17/02/2020 9:03 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@vintagepc

Not all PVC TXT sheets are the same.  I have several and each on is different even with the same filament and printer.  

Posted : 17/02/2020 10:16 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
Noble Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

@vintagepc

Not all PVC TXT sheets are the same.  I have several and each on is different even with the same filament and printer.  

Right, but I'd expect ones within the same batch to be consistent.

Posted : 17/02/2020 11:00 pm
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member
Posted by: @vintagepc
Posted by: @charles-h13

@vintagepc

Not all PVC TXT sheets are the same.  I have several and each on is different even with the same filament and printer.  

Right, but I'd expect ones within the same batch to be consistent.

One would hope.  I have two that are from the same batch and shipped to on the same day.  I have used the same printing technique and have gotten way different adhesion.  No idea why.  

Posted : 17/02/2020 11:10 pm
zoltan87
(@zoltan87)
Eminent Member

Interesting, I will give a try to glue stick in the future, as right now I have to wash the sheet with warm water and dishwasher between every single prints, to get any kind of adhesion. Alcohol doesn't do much, it has to be dishwasher liquid with warm water and a scouring pad. One major warning though, if you wash your sheet with water, you have to dry it within minutes, as I once missed this step, and the surface got pretty rusty by the next day! Luckily my sheet hasn't been completely ruined by that rust, and after every print the rust has worn away more and more, and now I can only see a few tiny spots.

Anyway, I will give glue sticks a try, as I am absolutely fed up with washing the sheet this way every time, then drying it. For some reason I have never had such trouble free perfect adhesion, as many here seem so suggest their experience is.

Posted : 17/02/2020 11:14 pm
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