Leaking Nozzle  

Page 2 / 2
  RSS
Karl Herbert
(@karl-herbert)
Famed Member

@theycallmejohn

If you work carefully, you don't need to disassemble the hotend. Remove the fanshroud and use a 16 mm wrench and a 7 mm socket wrench to remove the nozzle. Before doing so, heat the nozzle to approx. 260 degrees. I always use ceramic or copper paste when installing a new nozzle because this makes the nozzle loosen more easily (use it als for the screws, thermistor and heating cartdridge).

good luck!

Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen....
Posted : 10/04/2020 9:07 pm
mkio9
 mop
(@mop)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @neil-t

huntern08,

* I am now careful about the bends and route of my heater and thermister wires to the heater block - I gently tie wrap these and have a slight curve to the hotend to help prevent hot end rotation. The hot assembly can rotate inside  the extruder body and over time, and with a less than correct hot assembly procedures, the heatbreak may rotate within the block. Eventually the interface between heatbreak and the top of the nozzle thread will separate and filament will then start to leak. This is more likely if we swap nozzles.

Hay can you give more pic or explanations on this i have been having nozzle leaks for a vary long time now i have tried bunch of things and had to dismantle and reassemble the hot end many many many times no success, i dont know what i a doing wrong. just trying to cross stuff a list. as of recent i have been having leaks after almost every print of 2-4 hours. 

i have noticed that the heat sink coming lose in the past that i did not know might have caused leakage.
Also when hot tightening and holding heat block with a wrench the heat block does move left a bit maby due to tightening not sure, or maby the heat sink is moving in the extrude body causing the block to more left when it should not be. 

also i have yet to do cold pulls before changing nozzle, nozzle becomes lose i can un-tlighten with cloth and finger with temp above 250.

i manly try to burn the filament away from the threads (block/break/nozzle)over stove top and also the filament inside the heat break will come out and get burned at least that what i thought, now i am thinking that maby not all of it came out or got burned and when i am hot tightening something funky may be going on in there.

i also think there might be some vibration issue but the anti-vib feet seem to be fine so this is low on my list right now

i am also thinking besides not all the filament being burned away there may be some twisting issue when hot tightening that may/mayNot be causing issue....

i am thinking re-tightening the nozzle even with filament on threads and doing a cold pulls then dismantlement the hotend and cleaning the threads and reassembling it.

This post was modified 4 months ago by mkio9
Posted : 16/04/2020 12:40 am
mkio9
 mop
(@mop)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @mop
Posted by: @neil-t

huntern08,

* I am now careful about the bends and route of my heater and thermister wires to the heater block - I gently tie wrap these and have a slight curve to the hotend to help prevent hot end rotation. The hot assembly can rotate inside  the extruder body and over time, and with a less than correct hot assembly procedures, the heatbreak may rotate within the block. Eventually the interface between heatbreak and the top of the nozzle thread will separate and filament will then start to leak. This is more likely if we swap nozzles.

Hay can you give more pic or explanations on this i have been having nozzle leaks for a vary long time now i have tried bunch of things and had to dismantle and reassemble the hot end many many many times no success, i dont know what i a doing wrong. just trying to cross stuff a list. as of recent i have been having leaks after almost every print of 2-4 hours. 

i have noticed that the heat sink coming lose in the past that i did not know might have caused leakage.
Also when hot tightening and holding heat block with a wrench the heat block does move left a bit maby due to tightening not sure, or maby the heat sink is moving in the extrude body causing the block to more left when it should not be. 

also i have yet to do cold pulls before changing nozzle, nozzle becomes lose i can un-tlighten with cloth and finger with temp above 250.

i manly try to burn the filament away from the threads (block/break/nozzle)over stove top and also the filament inside the heat break will come out and get burned at least that what i thought, now i am thinking that maby not all of it came out or got burned and when i am hot tightening something funky may be going on in there.

i also think there might be some vibration issue but the anti-vib feet seem to be fine so this is low on my list right now

i am also thinking besides not all the filament being burned away there may be some twisting issue when hot tightening that may/mayNot be causing issue....

i am thinking re-tightening the nozzle even with filament on threads and doing a cold pulls then dismantlement the hotend and cleaning the threads and reassembling it.

 

additionally i installed a new heater cartrage from amazon and when hot tightening i get fluctions in temp from 285 some time drops to 250/260/270 not sure if the temp drops and tighten it, that could be other issue maby not a good hot tight seal

This post was modified 4 months ago by mkio9
Posted : 16/04/2020 12:50 am
mkio9
 mop
(@mop)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @chocki

Did you assemble, bring the temperature up to 280 Deg C and then tighten the nozzle further whilst at temperature?

This is the way it is supposed to be done unless! you have a nickel plated copper heat block and are using nickel plated copper nozzles, then there is no need for this further hot tightening. These are the instructions provided by E3d and I can confirm I did not carry out a hot tightening procedure on my Nickel plated heater block and nozzles, and it does not leak!. I am also using the E3d titanium heat break.

Posted by: @bobstro

Depending on how fastidious you are in keeping your nozzle and heater block clean, removal of any or all of these parts may be difficult without damaging something else. My thermistor and heater cartridge were welded into the heater block I learned on. After replacement, I used appropriate high-temp thermal paste for the parts inserted into the heater block, and use a silicone sock to avoid crud building up.

While I had mine torn down, I substituted a titanium heat break and coated copper heater block. Don't forget the thermal paste at the top of the heatbreak (and only the top).

 

I have a Titanium heat break and a Tungsten Carbide nozzle but no Nickel plated heater block.

Do you know if i would have to hot tighten the Tungsten Carbide nozzle and the Titanium heat break if i got a Nickel plated copper heater block?

Posted : 16/04/2020 1:16 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @mop

[...] Do you know if i would have to hot tighten the Tungsten Carbide nozzle and the Titanium heat break if i got a Nickel plated copper heater block?

As far as I know, any type of nozzle, block or heatbreak should be tightened while heated for best seal, yes.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 16/04/2020 6:18 am
pcweber
(@pcweber)
Trusted Member

There's a clue here that perhaps you have overlooked. You said that the nozzle can be removed by hand at 250°. If you're following the procedure, that should not occur. I printed a torque socket that only gives way when the correct torque is reached on the nozzle. After using it several times I've become accustomed to the required torque so I really don't need to use it anymore.

Hand tighten the nozzle while it's cold, making certain that there is a space between the heater block and the top of the nozzle. Once you bring the temperature up to 285°, turn off the mains and immediately tighten the nozzle to the requisite torque.

To verify that the mating of these parts is correct do a cold pull and look at the impression on the filament end. If there is anything more than a smooth impression of the inside of the nozzle, then you've failed to mate the parts correctly. 

I use e-sun cleaning filament prior to removing any nozzle cleaning the nozzle prior to its removal so that I can use it again. 

Good luck and stay safe. 

 

Phil

Posted : 16/04/2020 7:59 am
TheyCallMeJohn
(@theycallmejohn)
Eminent Member

@mop
Are you using genuine E3D parts from  them or an authorized distributor. Reading your post and you mentioning Amazon make me think some of the part aren’t OEM so may not have been machines to the correct tolerances.

Also have you gone they the E3D assembly instructions? Someone else suggested that to me and it seems to have helped.

Posted : 16/04/2020 3:37 pm
Karl Herbert
(@karl-herbert)
Famed Member

@theycallmejohn

I would recommend always using original E3D parts, especially the nozzles. The products are high quality and you don't have to worry about the manufacturing tolerances and support.

Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen....
Posted : 16/04/2020 6:00 pm
TheyCallMeJohn
(@theycallmejohn)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @karl-herbert

@theycallmejohn

I would recommend always using original E3D parts, especially the nozzles. The products are high quality and you don't have to worry about the manufacturing tolerances and support.

Thank you, I know, I agree, and I do. I was asking Mop if he/she was since they were talking about loose components. 

Posted : 16/04/2020 6:50 pm
mkio9
 mop
(@mop)
Estimable Member

Just to clarify I have been having issues with this for a long while now I must have at least dis-assembled and reassembled the hot end 4-8 times using the stock heat block and a new one i got (link below), i have also cleaned filament off parts when a leak happened by burning the filament off on top of a stove then using IPA and brass brush to clean things up

Posted by: @pcweber

There's a clue here that perhaps you have overlooked. You said that the nozzle can be removed by hand at 250°. If you're following the procedure, that should not occur. I printed a torque socket that only gives way when the correct torque is reached on the nozzle. After using it several times I've become accustomed to the required torque so I really don't need to use it anymore.

Hand tighten the nozzle while it's cold, making certain that there is a space between the heater block and the top of the nozzle. Once you bring the temperature up to 285°, turn off the mains and immediately tighten the nozzle to the requisite torque.

To verify that the mating of these parts is correct do a cold pull and look at the impression on the filament end. If there is anything more than a smooth impression of the inside of the nozzle, then you've failed to mate the parts correctly. 

I use e-sun cleaning filament prior to removing any nozzle cleaning the nozzle prior to its removal so that I can use it again. 

Good luck and stay safe. 

 

Phil

Hay i actually did follow the E3d instruction to set it to 285 and i also used a torque wrench(link Below),  i believe at least in part it was going that was because filament was already leaking and i could see it from top of the nozzle and was also on the threads.

i did break  the heater cartage a while back so installed a new one i got from amazon(link below), i am also using a new titanium  heat break from E3d(link below) and a tungsten nozzle i got from 3DSpool (link below). The reason i got the New Heat block and the Heat break(Bent the Original one) was so i could maby resolve the leak issue if it was those parts causing the issue, i was having this issues while back even with the original Heat block and heat break.

The heater cartage changes in temp when i clamp it with a spanner so what i do it hold it with a spanner until the spanner gets warm enough and temp rises but when the heat block starts moving when torque is applied, it starts to decrease in temp as well, i dont know if this could be the issue where temp drops and its technically hot tighten at a lower temp then 285?

however i will try to hot tighten it above 270 but set the temp 285 assuming it drops, i will quickly tighten it before it drops below 270 IF it happens that is.

i also recall when i first took a nozzle out it was hard to take out it was the one pre-assembled i dont know if that is the kind of tight-ness i need to to get when i tighten with my torque wrench? 

do you know if change in temp like with the heater cartage will cause issues?

also i believe the instruction for the E3d said to insert in the nozzle all they way into the heat block and make one full turn out away from the heat block i may try 1/2 turn see if that helps?

Posted by: @theycallmejohn

@mop
Are you using genuine E3D parts from  them or an authorized distributor. Reading your post and you mentioning Amazon make me think some of the part aren’t OEM so may not have been machines to the correct tolerances.

Also have you gone they the E3D assembly instructions? Someone else suggested that to me and it seems to have helped.

Posted by: @karl-herbert

@theycallmejohn

I would recommend always using original E3D parts, especially the nozzles. The products are high quality and you don't have to worry about the manufacturing tolerances and support.

@theycallmejohn

@karl-herbert

check out the links below let me know what you think of the nozzle at least its from a reputable source.

Future Plan:

so i just disassembled my hot end and i will put up a different post of the issue i am having, with more pic and other details once i have done some testing and reassembly 

1) had to reinstall nozzle to do come cold pulls with leaks and some filament on threads that is.
2) disassemble hot end, burn filament off parts on stove and clean with IPA and brass brush, ensure there is no filament inside the nozzle and heatbreak
3) re-assemble hot end and use candle trick mentioned by @chocki to see if both parts(break/nozzle) match up properly early-err
4) tigten nozzle at 270 and 285 and try to unscrew it at 215/250/270 by hand and see if it does it if not good else got a problem, then try to see if when un-screwing at 250/270/285 if i get the tight succession feel that i got when i first took a nozzle out of a pre-assembled hot end as a benchmark
5) do cold pulls to see if both parts match up and a check
6) do a long print to see if leaks occurs
7) cry
8) if failed then buy new heater cartage and or heat block from prusa or e3d
9)try all over again
10) wait in suspense

Parts I purchased:

https://e3d-online.com/catalog/product/view/id/9284/s/v6-titanium-heat-break/
https://spool3d.ca/tungsten-carbide-reprap-m6-nozzle/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077MGZ7K8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SUYVLYC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012AXR4S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

here are some pic of my past/resent fails for your entertainment

Posted : 17/04/2020 12:56 am
neil.t
(@neil-t)
Eminent Member

Mop,

* After we set temp to 285 C, as soon as we use a spanner, wrench, whatever, on the block or the nozzle the temperature will drop a little because the spanner(s) are now being heated as well. Expect some temperature fluctuations during a hot-tightening process, this is normal.

* In some of your photos it looks like the nozzle is tightened against the block - if you were to go back through this thread you will find frequent comments about needing a gap between the bottom of the heat block and the top of the hexagonal part of a nozzle. I have just now taken a picture of the bottom of my block: a gap between the bottom of the heat block and the top of the hexagonal part of a nozzle. This is absolutely vital! Inside the heat block (can't send you a picture of that) the top of the nozzle thread must be tight (I normally use finger tight - just my finger force, with out any wrench bare - but I have recently experimented with 1.5 N m torque and that seems to work fine as well) to the bottom of the heatbrake thread. No gap=leak, heatbreak and nozzle not meeting inside the block=leak.

* 285C or within 10C is good enough - no point at all wasting your time to the nearest few degrees - it does not matter.

* I personally think that the Prusa advice about turning the heatbreak is not good advice - all this does is to vary the distance between the bottom of the heatbreak threads and the top of the nozzle threads = leaks. I think that I understand why they give this advice: may avoid overtightening the heatbreak or nozzle. Overtightened threads = leak in time, and nozzle or heatbreak stuck in block. Happy to be corrected on this point.

I change nozzles frequently (more than daily on average) - usually no leak - if I have one it is because I didn't follow my own advice lol.

Cheers

Digbat

 

TANSTAAFL...
Posted : 17/04/2020 7:40 am
mkio9
 mop
(@mop)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @neil-t

Mop,

* After we set temp to 285 C, as soon as we use a spanner, wrench, whatever, on the block or the nozzle the temperature will drop a little because the spanner(s) are now being heated as well. Expect some temperature fluctuations during a hot-tightening process, this is normal.

* In some of your photos it looks like the nozzle is tightened against the block - if you were to go back through this thread you will find frequent comments about needing a gap between the bottom of the heat block and the top of the hexagonal part of a nozzle. I have just now taken a picture of the bottom of my block: a gap between the bottom of the heat block and the top of the hexagonal part of a nozzle. This is absolutely vital! Inside the heat block (can't send you a picture of that) the top of the nozzle thread must be tight (I normally use finger tight - just my finger force, with out any wrench bare - but I have recently experimented with 1.5 N m torque and that seems to work fine as well) to the bottom of the heatbrake thread. No gap=leak, heatbreak and nozzle not meeting inside the block=leak.

* 285C or within 10C is good enough - no point at all wasting your time to the nearest few degrees - it does not matter.

* I personally think that the Prusa advice about turning the heatbreak is not good advice - all this does is to vary the distance between the bottom of the heatbreak threads and the top of the nozzle threads = leaks. I think that I understand why they give this advice: may avoid overtightening the heatbreak or nozzle. Overtightened threads = leak in time, and nozzle or heatbreak stuck in block. Happy to be corrected on this point.

I change nozzles frequently (more than daily on average) - usually no leak - if I have one it is because I didn't follow my own advice lol.

Cheers

Digbat

 

Those are just the old pics when i was having this problem long while back i have learned a lot since then.

Posted : 17/04/2020 8:40 am
TheyCallMeJohn
(@theycallmejohn)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @mop

@theycallmejohn

@karl-herbert

check out the links below let me know what you think of the nozzle at least its from a reputable source.

Future Plan:

so i just disassembled my hot end and i will put up a different post of the issue i am having, with more pic and other details once i have done some testing and reassembly 

1) had to reinstall nozzle to do come cold pulls with leaks and some filament on threads that is.
2) disassemble hot end, burn filament off parts on stove and clean with IPA and brass brush, ensure there is no filament inside the nozzle and heatbreak
3) re-assemble hot end and use candle trick mentioned by @chocki to see if both parts(break/nozzle) match up properly early-err
4) tigten nozzle at 270 and 285 and try to unscrew it at 215/250/270 by hand and see if it does it if not good else got a problem, then try to see if when un-screwing at 250/270/285 if i get the tight succession feel that i got when i first took a nozzle out of a pre-assembled hot end as a benchmark
5) do cold pulls to see if both parts match up and a check
6) do a long print to see if leaks occurs
7) cry
8) if failed then buy new heater cartage and or heat block from prusa or e3d
9)try all over again
10) wait in suspense

Parts I purchased:

https://e3d-online.com/catalog/product/view/id/9284/s/v6-titanium-heat-break/
https://spool3d.ca/tungsten-carbide-reprap-m6-nozzle/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077MGZ7K8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SUYVLYC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012AXR4S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I happened to look a those links, and here was the most recent review for the heater block. There were several others to the same affect.
 
 
I would order a new one asap. If the threads are two loose than it is going to leak or come loose than leak. 
 
Posted : 17/04/2020 4:41 pm
mkio9
 mop
(@mop)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @theycallmejohn
I happened to look a those links, and here was the most recent review for the heater block. There were several others to the same affect.
 
 
I would order a new one asap. If the threads are two loose than it is going to leak or come loose than leak. 
 

Ah...ok will have to take a look at this thanks...

do you belive the e3d  the copper plated heat block would be a good alternative with titanium heat break and a tungsten carbide nozzle?

https://e3d-online.com/v6-plated-copper-heater-block

would getting the copper plated heat block have advantages when it comes to hot-tighten?

This post was modified 4 months ago by mkio9
Posted : 17/04/2020 11:47 pm
Page 2 / 2
Share:

Please Login or Register