How do I modify the firmware to allow a taller nozzle to work?
 
Notifications
Clear all

How do I modify the firmware to allow a taller nozzle to work?  

Page 1 / 2
  RSS
gido5731
(@gido5731)
Active Member
How do I modify the firmware to allow a taller nozzle to work?

Long story short, I got a new hotend for my MK3S and decided to get a volcano nozzle so I can experiment with new things in the future. When I ordered the nozzle, I found a lot of references to modifying the firmware to compensate for the significantly longer nozzle, which is totally fine to me, but at this point I'm at a loss on how to modify it to work since my attempts so far have failed. I have my fork on my git ( https://github.com/gidoBOSSftw5731/Prusa-Firmware/tree/volcanomod) with the stuff I've tried, but I can't see why it still fails to calibrate the Z. In essence, all I need it to do is shrink the Z height range by ~8.5mm. I found a lot of reference to a 3d printable mod to not have to do firmware modifications but I changed my hotend by necessity, not by choice, so I don't have a great way to build that mod (Ok, I could take an old nozzle I have and use that but that's 1. boring and 2. involves doing all the recalibrations a second time) and I don't mind losing 9mm of height.

Can someone point to me any details on the mod for this? It seems like people have made it work, but for the life of me I can not find anyones results on how.

Posted : 16/08/2021 12:09 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
Volcanic Action...

I used the Modified Z top and bottom brackets on one of my printers....   But you don't want to do that.

I suspect that if you reduce the Z height in Firmware by say 11mm and create a modified fan mount to lower the part cooling  fan shroud, 
you should be good to go!

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 16/08/2021 10:32 am
Stefan
(@stefan-3)
Eminent Member
Support for volcano heaterblock and nozzle

This is exactly what i wanted to see as a firmware feature.

Accept Volcano heater block with original plastic parts (only modified fan mount and shrould)

I never needed the full Z-height.

It would make the printer even more versatile, while keeping ALL critical hotend parts "original Prusa"

https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/postid/471415/

Unfortunately i got no support for that...

Posted : 16/08/2021 2:19 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Volcano is a bit dated now
Posted by: @stefan-3

This is exactly what i wanted to see as a firmware feature.

Accept Volcano heater block with original plastic parts (only modified fan mount and shrould)

It would be a nice feature, but I can understand why Prusa wouldn't want to officially support the Volcano. The Volcano hotend design is dated by today's standards. It adds considerable length to a hotend that is already not well supported, adding to issues with stability. I'm sure Prusa will go with a newer design at some point, but doing so won't make sense until they move to an extruder that can also keep up with the additional hotend capacity.

  • 3D Solex Matchless nozzles can already increase throughput of the standard E3D V6 hotend to the point that the Mk3 extruder cannot keep up.
  • Newer hotend designs (Dragon, et al.) keep the E3D V6 form factor and provide a (more-or-less) drop-in replacement that does not require any hardware or firmware changes while providing hotend capacities as high as, or higher than the Volcano.

I've got a Volcano on another printer, and it can certainly push a lot of filament, but it is a pain to maintain. Changing nozzles is particularly annoying due to the long length and fragility of the heatbreak.

I never needed the full Z-height.

I agree there. I'd really like a larger bed but would be perfectly happy with a Z height that's lower in proportion. 300x300x200Z would be almost ideal for most of what I print.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 16/08/2021 4:03 pm
gido5731
(@gido5731)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Volcano is a bit dated now

I actually wasn't aware that the volcano was dated, and if there is a different version of the nozzle with both the benefits of the volcano and not being as tall, I'd definitely be interested in that.

 

Also, I do agree it should be possible to change that in firmware, though I was not aware of how. I did what (to me, anyway) seemed like the way you would achieve that and failed, so that's a lot of why I'm here asking.

Posted : 16/08/2021 9:00 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
It can definitely be done. I just wouldn't expect Prusa to officially support it.
Posted by: @gido5731

I actually wasn't aware that the volcano was dated, and if there is a different version of the nozzle with both the benefits of the volcano and not being as tall, I'd definitely be interested in that.

Check out the 3D Solex Matchless nozzles. I've had good luck with them. Unfortunately, there's not a hardened version, so they're not suitable for all filaments.

 Also, I do agree it should be possible to change that in firmware, though I was not aware of how. I did what (to me, anyway) seemed like the way you would achieve that and failed, so that's a lot of why I'm here asking.

There are firmware changes if you want to do it yourself. You do need to watch out for other things like rearranging the PINDA. I believe @JoanTabb and @cwbullet have tried the Dragon hotend out, so perhaps they can give you more details on those hotends.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 16/08/2021 9:21 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
There be Dragons!

different folk, different strokes... 
I never liked the Volcano, 
As Bobstro mentions the nozzles are mega long, and are a pain to change, and the length of the heatblock, puts a lot of strain on the thin heatbreak

I First saw the Phaetus Dragon at a trade show about three years ago. 

I saw it on my first pas through the stalls, and picked up a brochure. 
when I didn't find anything I liked the look of better, I tried to find the stall for Phaetus again... and failed miserably. 

As time moved on I saw Triangle Labs advertise the Dragon hot end, and I bought a high flow version intending to use it on my newest Mk3S printer... 

Covid happened, I Got the offer of a Palette2S Pro... and thought the HiFlow hot end would mess up the filament changes, so I bought a standard flow version...   which I am still using in that printer... either version is a direct swap for the e3dV6 hot end. so there is no need to change the firmware or auxiliary hardware. 

I later saw adverts for the original Phaetus dragon, on the Bigtreetech website and then there was a bit of legal action which made the clones harder to find. 

I have not done any absolute tests, but the standard flow dragon that I have, seems to have better melt capability than the ordinary e3dV6 hot end. 

If you change the hot end you really should do a PID Tune  especially if the heatblock is a different metal (I think Mine is Copper(Maybe Brass)instead of Aluminium)

regards Joan
 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 16/08/2021 10:34 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
waiting

I am waiting for this to be delivered. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/ipp/184691490158?transactionId=2279668091008

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 16/08/2021 10:52 pm
Stefan
(@stefan-3)
Eminent Member
not visible

this can only be viewed by you 😀 

Posted : 16/08/2021 10:54 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
try this item code

Ebay item code, should resolve for you! 

184691490158

  Possible link        https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184691490158?hash=item2b00787d6e:g:NEIAAOSw0~pgPmOe

 

hope this works

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 17/08/2021 12:11 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
Dragon

I have used that Dragon hotend.  I have not found much different between it and the Phaetus Dragon.  They seem to have fallen off the plant.  

Posted by: @joantabb

Ebay item code, should resolve for you! 

184691490158

  Possible link        https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184691490158?hash=item2b00787d6e:g:NEIAAOSw0~pgPmOe

 

hope this works

regards Joan

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/08/2021 1:16 am
gido5731
(@gido5731)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Ordered new nozzle

Thanks for all your insights, I ordered an E3D Nozzle X and a silicone "sock" for the hotend (should I consider a new heat break and heater block too?) from scamazon with next-day shipping so I can update y'all soon. My reasoning for upgrading is mostly that I need to do a replacement and if at some point I want to do a nicer material (as I am considering in the future) I don't want to have to do a second replacement of parts. Hopefully these work well for my parts.

Posted : 17/08/2021 1:17 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
nozzle

You will not be unhappy with nozzle X.  Do not clean it with a wire brush.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/08/2021 1:19 am
gido5731
(@gido5731)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Noted

Thanks for the reassurance (free returns yay), though why specifically the warning about the wire brush? I don't have any intention to (I have some like firm-flexy needle poke-y things I used on my older printers, haven't had to de-jam my prusa because it's not a bowden design) use one but it's an oddly specific warning.

Posted : 17/08/2021 1:21 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
Wire bristles

Wire brushes have shorted out the power to the thermistor  and damaged the controller board.

you need to be careful wherever you use them

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 17/08/2021 1:32 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Nozzle-X warranty and coating

And specific to Nozzle-X, the warranty is void if you use a wire brush or even do cold pulls due to the coating they use. In any case, the warranty doesn't cover the coating (IIRC), so it's a bit of a moot point.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/08/2021 3:51 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
Metal brushes.

 

Posted by: @joantabb

Wire brushes have shorted out the power to the thermistor  and damaged the controller board.

you need to be careful wherever you use them

regards Joan

That is absolutely a reason not to use it one the sides.  I have switched to nylon and bamboo toothbrushes.  If I use brass, it is only on the nozzle and not Nozzle x.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/08/2021 3:53 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member
Warrantee.

 

Posted by: @bobstro

And specific to Nozzle-X, the warranty is void if you use a wire brush or even do cold pulls due to the coating they use. In any case, the warranty doesn't cover the coating (IIRC), so it's a bit of a moot point.

The warrantee is pretty worthless.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 17/08/2021 3:54 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Good time to upgrade hotend parts
Posted by: @gido5731

Thanks for all your insights, I ordered an E3D Nozzle X and a silicone "sock" for the hotend (should I consider a new heat break and heater block too?) from scamazon with next-day shipping so I can update y'all soon. My reasoning for upgrading is mostly that I need to do a replacement and if at some point I want to do a nicer material (as I am considering in the future) I don't want to have to do a second replacement of parts. Hopefully these work well for my parts.

If you're tearing it all down, it's a good time for upgrades. When I replaced my original heater block, I went ahead and upgraded a few other parts:

  • Replaced heater block with nickel-plated copper block.
  • Replaced heatbreak with E3D titanium one-piece heatbreak.
  • Added thermal paste to top (only) of heatbreak threads on upper (heatsink) end.
  • Replaced nozzle with E3D or P3-D coated nozzle (done previously).
  • Replaced heater cartridge and thermistor that were hopelessly entombed in plastic with the heater block.
  • Applied Slice Engineering boron nitride thermal paste to heater cartridge and thermistor to aid future removal.
  • Added silicone sock to prevent heater cartridge and thermistor from being entombed in plastic for next time.

I've tried the clone "bimetal" heatbreaks and had nothing but problems with internal fit and finish. I'm only using E3D Titanium heatbreaks on my printers now. Considering the importance of the hotend for quality prints, I'm sticking to E3D parts or equal quality for all parts. TriangleLab clone parts are decent in a pinch.

I do wish I'd added quick removal connectors for the hotend wiring while I was at it.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 17/08/2021 4:13 pm
gido5731
(@gido5731)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Useful tips

Thanks for the comments, I have parts coming today but most of what you seem to be reccomending is stuff I already have,

 

- I got a new heater block, though it's not technically E3D and was for another printer (I was in a rush when I ordered it and thought I needed next-day shipping.) since my current heat block was melted due to an attempt to remove caked-on PETG
- Still on the stock heat break, but that's not hard to replace in the future (I actually had one on order but I realized it was the wrong one so cancelled it before it shipped)

- I do have thermal paste (Arctic MX-4, used for computers usually) so I might apply that in places where high-temp isn't a requirement

- Heater cartridge was actually the original thing I needed to replace, thermosistor also got replaced while I was in there as it got pretty mangled in the removal process

- I'll consider a similar thermal paste in the future for high-temp applications

- Also got a sock because yikes was that a mess

 

And I did add quick-connects to the heater (already had one on the thermosistor) though the ones I added for the heater were... a bit bulky and probably not something I'll keep long-term because their bulk may actually cause problems for things.

 

Also, on the topic of the Nozzle X wire brush thing, I realized after some research that the coating is basically all of its claim to fame, so that seems like a reasonable thing to avoid hitting with a wire brush. I also doubt I'll be taking warranty on a nozzle, which is a cheap part that is also a wearing item.

 

Thanks for the insights

Posted : 17/08/2021 7:17 pm
Page 1 / 2
Share: