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Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break  

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motocoder
(@motocoder)
Trusted Member
Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

It is a well known issue that some printers made before a certain date have a heat break with a machining issue (a "step") that causes filament jams and poor extrusion. So like many others, I decided to just replace the heat break. Initially I intended to buy a normal E3D V6 heat break, for about 1/3 the cost of this. But after hearing about their titanium heat break, I decided to go that route instead. I now wish I had never heard of this product.

Titanium has a much lower thermal conductivity than the steel used in the regular heat break. This might seem like a desirable characteristic, given the purpose of a heat break is to minimize heat transfer from the hot end up into the heat sink. However, it also causes less heat transfer from the heat break to the heat sink. Because of this, when the printer performs a retraction move, molten filament is being sucked up into the heat break. This then causes a temporary jam, which can be seen as a void in the print.

So unless you NEED the titanium heat break, which is useful for printing at very hot temperatures, do yourself, and your wallet, a favor, and just get the regular stainless steel E3D heat break, or the Micro-Swiss heat break.

Posted : 05/07/2018 4:35 pm
dobbewan
(@dobbewan)
Trusted Member
Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break


It is a well known issue that some printers made before a certain date have a heat break with a machining issue (a "step") that causes filament jams and poor extrusion. So like many others, I decided to just replace the heat break. Initially I intended to buy a normal E3D V6 heat break, for about 1/3 the cost of this. But after hearing about their titanium heat break, I decided to go that route instead. I now wish I had never heard of this product.

Titanium has a much lower thermal conductivity than the steel used in the regular heat break. This might seem like a desirable characteristic, given the purpose of a heat break is to minimize heat transfer from the hot end up into the heat sink. However, it also causes less heat transfer from the heat break to the heat sink. Because of this, when the printer performs a retraction move, molten filament is being sucked up into the heat break. This then causes a temporary jam, which can be seen as a void in the print.

So unless you NEED the titanium heat break, which is useful for printing at very hot temperatures, do yourself, and your wallet, a favor, and just get the regular stainless steel E3D heat break, or the Micro-Swiss heat break.

Hmmm. I have never really had a issue with my 3 printers that I have modified with a Ti heatbreak. Once I replaced it ( along with a PC extruder body and copper block) I have not had a issue with ABS jamming again. I didn't go direct E3D though. I Ordered some Winsinn Ti heatbreaks and I have never looked back I do print at hot temperatures though and rarely ever print with PLA. With chopped carbon fiber filaments it works wonders!

Posted : 05/07/2018 8:26 pm
Zinga
(@zinga)
Trusted Member
Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

I haven't had any problems with the titanium heat break. Your retraction shouldn't be set high enough for filament to get up there anyway (mine's set for 1mm @ 50mm/s). The exhaust from the heatsink fan is warm, so there's definitely some heat transfer. Did you use thermal paste on the part of the heat break threaded into the heatsink?

Posted : 05/07/2018 10:48 pm
thrawn86
(@thrawn86)
Honorable Member
Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break


I haven't had any problems with the titanium heat break. Your retraction shouldn't be set high enough for filament to get up there anyway (mine's set for 1mm @ 50mm/s).

this was my thought as well. seems like you'd need at least 5-6mm of retraction to get anywhere close. molten plastic anywhere but the melt zone is a guaranteed jam every time.

Posted : 08/07/2018 7:09 pm
Martin Wolfe
(@martin-wolfe)
Reputable Member
Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

Also no problems with the titanium heat break. Just remove stupidly high retraction values and limit to a maximum of 2mm the size of the actual heat break zone. Anything more and you will have trouble.

Regards,
Martin

Martin Wolfe

Posted : 08/07/2018 8:09 pm
simon.n2
(@simon-n2)
Eminent Member
Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

Hey guys!

I have got a chinesium titanium heatbreak and I have the same issues. Sometimes I appear to have a partial clog of the nozzle, that most of the time solves by itself. The reason I know it is further up the heatbreak is because I can feel it when I do a cold pull. I feed the new filament in and there is resistance, but no filament coming out. When I press harder the filament suddenly moves and just a little bit later filament comes out of the nozzle.

This can either be because of the material or because of the fact it's chinesium. I've also heard that the MK3 heatbreak has an additional chamfer. Is that correct?

Posted : 10/10/2018 11:12 am
metacollin
(@metacollin)
Eminent Member
Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break


Titanium has a much lower thermal conductivity than the steel used in the regular heat break.

It is. The low-conductivity titanium alloys have between 3-4 times more thermal resistance than stainless steel.


This might seem like a desirable characteristic, given the purpose of a heat break is to minimize heat transfer from the hot end up into the heat sink.

It is a desirable characteristic, and yes, that is the purpose.


However, it also causes less heat transfer from the heat break

Yes, which is what we want. Note that less heat transfer means the heat break is cooler, not warmer. Heat transfer between two objects in contact depends on the contract area and the temperature difference, it does not depend on the thermal conductivities of the two objects. Thermal conductivity will determine how quickly heat flows within each object, and thus how sharp a temperature gradient is developed, but it doesn't have any effect on thermal transfer between the objects.

What this means is that if the top part of a stainless steel heat break is, say, 45°C, it will transfer exactly as much heat into the heat sink (assuming the same contact area/quality of that contact) as a titanium heat break that is also 45°C. The only way the heat break could be transferring less heat into the heat sink is if it is, in fact, cooler.

Actually, I am confused by this statement:


Because of this, when the printer performs a retraction move, molten filament is being sucked up into the heat break. This then causes a temporary jam, which can be seen as a void in the print.

Are you trying to say that the titanium heat break is getting hotter, resulting in filament saying molten to a higher point than it otherwise would? If so, then that is not the case - higher thermal resistance means every part of the heat break is going to be cooler compared to a stainless steel one, simply because the thermal gradient is sharper - more heat is kept in the hot end and less transfers out of it. Remember, heat transfer is based on temperature difference, so less heat into the heat sink only happens if the heat break is actually just that much cooler.

If that isn't at all what you're saying, I apologize for misunderstanding. My other guess is perhaps you are saying its BECAUSE it is cooler that this is a problem: the molten filament hardens too quickly vs. a stainless steel heat break, resulting in a jam.

Well, that shouldn't happen at all. If molten filament is making it up that far, something else is wrong. Additionally, if the stainless steel heat break was preventing this by being warmer, then the filament would soften too early and cause a jam anyway, before we even bring retraction into it.

Your problems are not because of the titanium heat break. If I had to guess, it would probably be some sort of error in the reassembly of the hotend. I mean no disrespect - I've done it a few times myself. There are a lot of subtle things that are easy to forget that, if you do forget and don't do, can have a very negative impact on the hotend's performance, especially with retraction of filaments like PLA.

Here is a quick checklist of mistakes I've made that I think other people might easily make as well, maybe make sure you did all of these things? Same for anyone else having issues:

  • Did you make sure the teflon tube was pushed all the way down?[

  • Was it the stock tube, or did you make a new one? You have to bevel the edge of the hotend-facing end of the tube with 45° angle for it to make a good seal.

  • Was the top of the hot end heat block clean and free of crud?

  • Did you screw the nozzle all the way in, back off a quarter turn, screw in the heat break, then turn the nozzle with a wrench VERY tightly, so it is tight against the heat break and not the heat block? If you don't do this, you won't get a proper seal. If there is any gap, extra molten filament will fill the tiny cavity in between, creating reservoir of excess molten filament.

    During retraction moves, this excess molten filament gets pulled up during retraction moves, filling the gap around the solid filament and the part of the heat break inside the hot end. This gradually causes heat creep until the filament softens too high up in the heat break, resulting in a clog. It does only happen if you use retraction, but it isn't from the retraction pulling molten filament up directly - if it was, it would block immediately after the very first retraction move.

    This is almost certainly the cause of your problems if I had to guess, a bad seal.

  • Did you make sure to do the above with the hotend on and at temperature? You can't do it cold, any plastic left inside will not be molten and will prevent a good seal from being formed. This is the one I think most people screw up - I sure did when I did my first nozzle swap.

  • Did you apply fresh thermal paste to the upper part of the heat break that comes into contact with the heat sink?
    /list]
  • Posted : 01/12/2018 3:04 pm
    andy.c8
    (@andy-c8)
    New Member
    Re: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

    metacollin wrote: Heat transfer between two objects in contact depends on the contract area and the temperature difference, it does not depend on the thermal conductivities of the two objects. Thermal conductivity will determine how quickly heat flows within each object, and thus how sharp a temperature gradient is developed, but it doesn't have any effect on thermal transfer between the objects.

    Er... first of all, heat transfer in the case of conduction IS the study of how quickly heat flows... so it doesn't quite make sense to separate the two because the overall goal is to determine how fast heat can be dissipated with the heat break-heat sink system. In this case, OP is right. A lower conductivity will result in less heat flux, but what he's missing is that the temperature gradient will be smaller to begin with so really, it's a good thing since we're trying to isolate the hot parts from the cold parts. I'm in complete agreement with you there.

    It seems like what you're describing is that you can assume equal heat flux at the border between the heat break and the heat sink, which I totally agree with. However, I would argue that the overall heat flux of the whole system changes dramatically when you have different thermal conductivities. More importantly, even though the heat flux is equal at the boundary, the thermal conductivities of both materials will determine the amount of heat flux, so if you're comparing a steel-steel system vs a titanium-steel system, the heat flux at the boundary will be different between the two.

    I agree with everything else you wrote in general though, that the titanium heat break having lower conductivity is desirable, and the entire titanium heat break would be cooler than a steel one because of the larger thermal gradient.

    I did have a question though. Regarding the teflon tube, what's the significant of ensure it has a good seal?

    Posted : 26/02/2019 6:52 pm
    Arno
     Arno
    (@arno)
    Active Member
    RE: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

    Decided to upgrade to a Titanium heatbreak too. Not tried the original E3D heatbreak, but a clone one of Turmberg3D who usually has good stuff and good reviews too. A good lesson, stick to the originals! But anyway, not sure how useful this information is in that case, but I had a jam, pulled everything apart and found out the jam was in the heatbreak itself, the metal part. Cleared it up, checked everything else. Few prints later, another jam. Pulled it apart again. Nozzle was fine, PTFE tube was fine, and again, the heatbreak clogged up in the metal only area.

    Not sure this is related the Titanium or just a bad heatbreak of course, so please, ignore my experience regarding the original E3D one, since so many people have had perfect experiences with it. Just thought, since my hotend needed replacement to do it better right away. Another lesson learned. Mostly, don't buy knockoffs 😉 .

    But then again. I've also tried the original E3D Nozzle X and it clogged up super quick. Twice. Returned it. I've never had so many quick clogs with any nozzle, not even cheap knock-off brass ones.
    My 1.5 year old Mirco Swiss hardened steel nozzle with 100's of prints is still going strong without any jams. So, I guess there's no real rule to follow other then, just try it out or stick to everything original.

    This post was modified 3 years ago 4 times by Arno
    Posted : 14/10/2020 11:27 am
    karl-herbert
    (@karl-herbert)
    Illustrious Member
    RE: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

    Titanium is not always 100% titanium. There are differences in terms of alloying elements and degrees of purity. And no one knows exactly which materials are used by the manufacturer (especially with the cheap offers). I never had any problems with the original E3D Titanium heatbreak in combination with the nickel-plated copper heating block and a tungsten carbide nozzle. The temperature at the heatsink is also at the printing of CarbonPEEK about 45 degrees C.

    Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen.

    Posted : 14/10/2020 1:39 pm
    Arno
     Arno
    (@arno)
    Active Member
    RE: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break

    After having bad experience with a 3rd party titanium heatbreak, I now have been printing for about 2/3 months with an original E3D titanium heatbreak and I can confirm the posters issue. I've had 4 full jams within the PTFE tube, where It's inside the heatbreak. Which I've never had in 3 years of printing with the default (Prusa version) one. It otherwise prints fine, but I'd highly advice to remove any filament when finished printing to limit getting this issue. I'm going back to the default metal E3D heatbreak, not the Prusa one, because the modification of the 2.2mm bore for the MMU causes some issues with a certain type of PLA I have with some additives that works like a charm with almost no visible layers, but sadly don't like that space together with retractions. So, hopefully that would be the best config for me 🙂

     
     

     

     

    Posted : 04/04/2021 9:32 am
    cwbullet
    (@cwbullet)
    Member
    RE: Don't buy the E3D titanium heat break
    Posted by: @matthew-h26

    It is a well known issue that some printers made before a certain date have a heat break with a machining issue (a "step") that causes filament jams and poor extrusion. So like many others, I decided to just replace the heat break. Initially I intended to buy a normal E3D V6 heat break, for about 1/3 the cost of this. But after hearing about their titanium heat break, I decided to go that route instead. I now wish I had never heard of this product.

    Titanium has a much lower thermal conductivity than the steel used in the regular heat break. This might seem like a desirable characteristic, given the purpose of a heat break is to minimize heat transfer from the hot end up into the heat sink. However, it also causes less heat transfer from the heat break to the heat sink. Because of this, when the printer performs a retraction move, molten filament is being sucked up into the heat break. This then causes a temporary jam, which can be seen as a void in the print.

    So unless you NEED the titanium heat break, which is useful for printing at very hot temperatures, do yourself, and your wallet, a favor, and just get the regular stainless steel E3D heat break, or the Micro-Swiss heat break.

    I have been printing with them for 2 years with everything from PLA to PC Blend.  No issues from me.  I even use high retraction rates on some prints.  

    --------------------
    Chuck H
    3D Printer Review Blog

    Posted : 04/04/2021 10:43 am
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