Did update ruin my printer?  

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TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

Hi all,

First post (will explain) a little long, sorry 😐 

I bought my I3 MK3 kit Jan. ‘19, assembled it, ran ONE round of calibration and it just ....worked! Since the MK3S was released about the same time Prusa generously sent me an upgrade kit for free. Super service, but since my printer worked I just put the box on the shelf.

For the last 2 years it has continued to just print EVERYTHING I threw at it; PLA, PETG, TPU, ASA and ABS. I never had a problem that was not my fault 🤓 I have even been running a Prusa/Octoprint off a RPI Zero W, still with no problems. 

I didn’t even update firmware, was running v3.7.something !! I did update Prusaslicer occasionally, but that was it.

I never thought about it, I didn’t go check the printer all the time, I just expected it to be done. This is also why this is my first post after 2 years of ownership. I recommended the MK3 to a lot of friends; “because it just works”.

Now, 2 weeks ago I started to get “change filament” errors (m600) midprint. None of the suggestions online helped and I remembered the MK3S Upgrade I had on the shelf, so I thought... well maybe it’s time to upgrade.

BIG MISTAKE - since it upgraded (incl. firmware) I have had to play around with calibrations, had some x-axis crashes on larger prints (NEVER seen that before), my PETG prints are sh... (as I can see others in this forum are struggling with!) and I have found myself staring at the prints because I just don’t trust the printer anymore.

I am now seriously considering downgrading back to my previous MK3 setup, and downgrade firmware/slicer.

I would appreciate any comments, advice etc. from you guys?

Posted : 28/02/2021 11:29 am
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Reputable Member

Your change filament errors suggest the filament sensor was failing.  Perhaps no more than a plug working loose or perhaps a component was drifting out of spec.

And it does pay to keep the firmware up to date ...

But that's not the issue.

"It just works” is pretty much the case for most users but it does lull people into a false sense of security.  You do need to do a little maintenance.

If you have never done so, now might be a good time to change your nozzle, they do wear.

Begin with a two year service: check that no screws have worked loose anywhere, pull and reinsert all the electrical/electronic connectors in turn, brush or blow out plastic debris from every crevice, make sure all the ventilation slots in the power supply and EINSY case are clear.

Then the regular chores that should be done every few months: cleaning and lubricating the smooth rods, clean the fan blades with a stiff paintbrush and pull out any hairs with tweezers, check the idler bearings, drives and belts for accumulated debris, check belt tension, do a full wash of the steel-sheet (detergent and HOT water.)

Now do a new XYZ calibration followed by a first level calibration.

Done that?  If there are still problems come back and we'll take another look.

Cheerio,

Posted : 28/02/2021 2:15 pm
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

Thank you #Diem, appreciate your time 🙂 and reg. the filament sensor failing, that was my thinking too and why I chose to do the upgrade.

Your point on getting lulled into not doing maintenance is also very valid. However - as you suggested- I have changed nozzle, and I do regular cleans and checkups 🙂  

But the significant contrast btw. a week ago and now is what frustrates me. It's like everything is worse. Most visible is the extremely crappy PET-G prints. I never had to 'fiddle' with settings in PrusaSlicer and I have printed some pretty large objects (air intakes for race car etc. ), now it's stringy, adhesion is an issue etc. etc. (actually a lot like this post)

And yes, after 'upgrading' the extruder I did several XYZ calibrations (all good) and first layer cal. also looks good.

Only thing I have wondered is (due the the 'shelf life' of my MK3S upgrade kit) it did not come with the SuperPINDA. Could that cause the mayhem?

I'll be taking it apart again going over everything incl. checking rods are true, bearings, belts, pulleys. But frankly I don't expect to find anything.

I'd appreciate comments, inputs etc. I want my trusty Prusa back 🙂 Thanks guys.

Posted : 28/02/2021 3:24 pm
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Reputable Member

@tfunder

The two main causes of stringing with PETG are temperature settings and moisture.  If you are using settings that worked before they should be OK so try drying the filament.

(actually a lot like this post)

His first layer is off and the filament may well be damp.  He's had some good advice but seems to be ignoring it.

If yours is like that revisit your first layer calibration, you are aiming to print a single layer *sheet*. It should be possible to peel it off in one and fold it without the threads seperating. If it breaks into lines it is too high, not squished enough. If it is a single sheet but with wavy lines or drag marks on it you are too low.

The SuperPINDA helps most if you're printing in extreme ambient temperatures, most people won't see much benefit.

Cheerio,

Posted : 01/03/2021 5:50 am
towlerg
(@towlerg)
Prominent Member

On the subject of filament run out detect, Joan suggested a really simple mod to add an LED as immediate indication of detector fail.

Posted : 01/03/2021 10:43 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

I have has the same change filament requests over the last week.  I had to disable the filament sensor.  

I would downgrade and see if the problem continue.  

This post was modified 1 month ago by cwbullet
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 01/03/2021 10:47 am
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

Hi all,

Again, thank you for your replies 🙂 

I usually keep my unsused filament in dryboxes (somewhat airtight) with a eBay hygrometer in, and again it would have had to change significantly over the last weeks.

I have however revisited first layer calibration (again again!) as that could of course be off compared to 'before'. I now get decent PLA prints (not 100% on par with before) but still struggle with PET-G, first layer ok, but still a lot of stringing. Havn't tried other filaments yet.

...and thanks for clearing that about the SuperPINDA - removed from the list 🙂

@cwbullet : Interesting that you experience the same - have you upgraded PrucaSlicer (or profiles) or firmware lately?

Now I am getting both frustrated and curious enough that I think I'll revert in the weekend to compare results 🙂

Posted : 01/03/2021 11:54 am
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

...forgot to ask: Can I run the new (MK3S - steel ball vs.) filament sensor with older firmware - like 3.7.x ?

Posted : 01/03/2021 12:28 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Famed Member

@tfunder

3.5.3 is the first earliest version that mentions a MK3S.  As the ball bearing filament sensor was released with the S variant then I would expect that to be the first you could go back to.  

Posted : 01/03/2021 12:35 pm
TFunder liked
HeneryH
(@heneryh)
Estimable Member

The filament sensor on the MK3s is pretty finicky with the placement of the sensor.  The MK3s+ had a redesign to the elbow to make things better.

I had to loosen the sensor on the top of the block and fiddle with it while watching the sensor value on the diagnostic screen.  Eventually I ended up putting a shim under the sensor to make it more solid.

Just an observation that about what many of us had done a while back.

Posted : 01/03/2021 3:29 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@tfunder

I have updated both Prusa Slicer and the printer to latest.  I have three failed prints because the printer stopped in the middle.  I finally just turned it off.  I am using a Bondtech Exruder.  I will probably try to fix it this weekend.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 01/03/2021 3:47 pm
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

@cwbullet

I'd be interested in your findings. I think I'll try a firmware/slicer downgrade first as it's 'free'.

Posted : 01/03/2021 4:08 pm
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

Hi all,

Just a quick update.

Experimented with a couple of firmware version. With 3.8.1 I get consistent good prints again.

I really have tried to dig into this to try to find an explanation. I have not been able to, and to be honest my printer now works and I have spent waaaayy to much time on this so I have to let it go.

My trusted Prusa is back. End of story 🙂

 

Thanks for all your help 🙂

 

Posted : 15/03/2021 10:44 pm
Dan Rogers
(@dan-rogers)
Reputable Member

I lag on adopting a new firmware for just this reason.  So now there is a 3.8?   Hahahahahahahahah!

Posted : 16/03/2021 12:12 am
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

As you can probably imagine, if your printer is working great I would not recommend upgrading 😉

Posted : 16/03/2021 7:26 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Noble Member
Posted by: @tfunder

As you can probably imagine, if your printer is working great I would not recommend upgrading 😉

I'm most definitely in the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' camp!

I've been very hesitant to 'upgrade' software on both the Prusa and the Ultimaker printers due to reports that issues exist with the upgrades.

In my previous working life, I lost count of the times that a so-called 'upgrade' had to be rolled back immediately after implementation due to failure of the post-procedure proof-of-performance tests.

Posted : 16/03/2021 8:21 am
TFunder liked
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Reputable Member

@tfunder

corrollery:

If your printer is beginning to show new issues upgrading the firmware will probably not fix it.  Don't blame the upgrade when it gets worse.

 

Upgrades add features and fix long-standing issues.

Cheerio,

Posted : 16/03/2021 8:21 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

A downgrade might give you the answer.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 16/03/2021 9:33 am
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Famed Member

The print issues you are experiencing are probably related to the change from LA1.0 to LA1.5 that was adopted by the later firmware.  Its supposed to take existing LA1.0 values and convert them to a suitable value for LA1.5 but in practice many people had issues with that.   Its why the filament profiles now have a more complicated LA line in them that supplies a new value rather than relying on the conversion math.  

For example from the generic pla filament -

M900 K{if printer_notes=~/.*PRINTER_MODEL_MINI.*/ and nozzle_diameter[0]==0.6}0.12{elsif printer_notes=~/.*PRINTER_MODEL_MINI.*/ and nozzle_diameter[0]==0.8}0.06{elsif printer_notes=~/.*PRINTER_MODEL_MINI.*/}0.2{elsif nozzle_diameter[0]==0.8}0.01{elsif nozzle_diameter[0]==0.6}0.04{else}0.05{endif} ; Filament gcode LA 1.5
{if printer_notes=~/.*PRINTER_MODEL_MINI.*/};{elsif printer_notes=~/.*PRINTER_HAS_BOWDEN.*/}M900 K200{elsif nozzle_diameter[0]==0.6}M900 K18{elsif nozzle_diameter[0]==0.8};{else}M900 K30{endif} ; Filament gcode LA 1.0

Big difference between K=30 for LA1.0 and K=0.05 for LA1.5

If your filament profiles still have just LA1.0 values in them it is likely the reason for the poorer print output.  That being said I agree with the if it ain't broke don't fix it sentiment.  I think I'm still running 3.7.x on my MK3 (non S printer).

Posted : 16/03/2021 9:36 am
TFunder
(@tfunder)
Active Member

@neophyl

That I need to look further into! 🙂 Thanks 🙂

Do you know at what specific firmware it was changed?

Posted : 16/03/2021 9:58 am
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