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yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Awful clicking noise from extruder

Hello community,

 

I notice today (after changing the nozzle from 0.4 to 0.6, I don't know if it is related) that my MK3 does an awful noise from the extruder : 

 

I followed all the steps of this trouble shooting: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/oqpnu51iy6-extruder-clicking 

Last firmware and last version of slic3r 2.1.1

Idler tension OK, gear alignment OK,  gears cleaned OK. I did also a cold pull, my hotend and nozzle are not clogged. Everything seems OK.

I was wondering maybe is my 3mf file the issue (see attachement).

The noise go increasing layer after layer...I had to stop the print. If someone could help it will be very appreciated.

Attachment removed
Attachment removed
This topic was modified 2 years ago 4 times by yannick.m4
Posted : 22/12/2019 7:05 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

Some observations: 

  1. You're using a 0.60mm nozzle.
  2. You're using ABS with a maximum volumetric speed set to 11mm^3/s (same as Prusa generic PLA setting).
  3. You are using 60mm/s infill speed.
  4. You are using a 0.35mm layer height.
  5. You are using a 0.72mm extrusion width.
  6. The clicks seem to pick up as you hit infill areas. Retractions may also be part of the noise.

Your layer height and extrusion width are within the usable range of a 0.60mm nozzle. With that combination, you want to keep your maximum speeds below about 50mm/s. The easiest way to do this is with the Filament settings->Advanced->Maximum volumetric speed (MVS) setting. Try knocking this back a bit, say to about 8mm^3/s and see if that helps. If it does, you can increment it slowly. You may simply have to create a profile for this filament with a lower MVS value.

As a simple test, dial back speed to 50% using the front knob mid-print. If that helps, you know it's something you can fix with slicer settings.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 22/12/2019 7:29 pm
yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

@bobstro

I tried to reduce speed in live by tuning it to 50% lower and I get exactly the same noise...

Posted : 22/12/2019 7:36 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder
Posted by: @yannick-m4

I tried to reduce speed in live by tuning it to 50% lower and I get exactly the same noise...

 

Heat up to print temps, raise Z and extrude some filament. It should flow smoothly and coil on the bed below. If it angles to one side or extrudes unevenly, you've likely got a partial clog. The clicking is due to back-pressure that the extruder can't overcome, so it slips and clicks. If this is the case, try doing some cold pulls then to verify you don't have a partial clog.

Also check the filament feed path for excessive drag or friction.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 22/12/2019 8:27 pm
yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

@bobstro

I have just tried what you explained and the extruder extrudes at the same pace all along with a perfect straight falling filament, no curves, no bend.

Some people says in forums that if you move the filament by hand in the gears, they have to turn. In my case, it doesn't do that.

The idler rotates perfectly when touching it but the motor gear has some resistance. I assume it is normal because the gear is tighten to the motor shaft.

Posted : 22/12/2019 8:36 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

Hmm. You don't seem to have a partial clog, your filament path is good, and slowing down isn't having any effect. If you've changed nozzles, inspect the gap between the heat block and heat sink to be sure no filament is oozing out due to an insufficiently tight nozzle.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 22/12/2019 9:24 pm
yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

@bobstro

Already done, I untightened the nozzle and tightened it again using a 3D printing 3nm torque wrench.

Posted : 22/12/2019 9:36 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

Those are all the ideas I have. Good luck with it!

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 22/12/2019 9:39 pm
Dave Avery
(@dave-avery)
Honorable Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

have you actually lowered the max volumetric limit and not just turned down the speed setting ?

 

Posted : 23/12/2019 10:34 pm
Dave Avery
(@dave-avery)
Honorable Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

without the volumetric limit you are trying to print infill @ .35mm x .7mm x 80mm/sec or 20mm3/sec which is around 2x the capacity of a v6 hot end

Posted : 23/12/2019 10:56 pm
yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

Hello David,

Thanks for your post. I actually only decreased the speed limit.

I thought that if I set up in slic3r the max volumetric limit to 11mm3/s, the printer makes sure it never goes above this setting limit by adjusting the speed. Otherwise what is the point of this setting ?

I would try tomorrow to decrease it to 8 but do I have also to change speed or the slic3r will adapt ? I guess normally the voluletric flow should prevail over the speed one and avoid getting those 20mm3/s ?

 

Posted : 24/12/2019 1:49 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder
Posted by: @yannick-m4

[...] I would try tomorrow to decrease it to 8 but do I have also to change speed or the slic3r will adapt ? I guess normally the voluletric flow should prevail over the speed one and avoid getting those 20mm3/s ?

Dialing the speed back mid-print with the front knob is a quick-and-dirty check, but only if you dial it way back (50% or below). The actual "fix" is setting Maximum volumetric speed, either under Print Settings->Speed->Autospeed (advanced) or Filament Settings->Advanced->Print speed override. The most restrictive settings takes precedence. You are correct that speeds will be throttled -- if and only if necessary -- to stay under the MVS rate.

I set an overall limit of 11.5mm^3/s for the E3D V6 under Print Settings, then adjust individual Filament Settings profiles for particular materials.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 24/12/2019 7:24 am
yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

I cannot test it right now I am out of home for Christmas but in my case I printed it with the 11mm3/s setting so I supposed the MK3 would have been able to handle it, isn't ?

Anyway Ill give it a try maybe ABS needs lower volumetric flow rate ?

Posted : 24/12/2019 6:49 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder
Posted by: @yannick-m4

I cannot test it right now I am out of home for Christmas but in my case I printed it with the 11mm3/s setting so I supposed the MK3 would have been able to handle it, isn't ?

11.5mm^3/s is a good "safe" value to recommend to others. In practice, you may get around 15mm^3/s. However, this is entirely dependent on the viscosity of the filament. I keep most PLA at 11.5mm^3/s, but for some I drop it to 10 or below. PETG and other materials range from 1-8mm^3/s. When I'm initially calibrating a new filament I'll note any clicking during the test prints and dial the rate back accordingly.

Anyway Ill give it a try maybe ABS needs lower volumetric flow rate ?

It will vary even among filament types. Temps and nozzle types can affect results. Just give a test and see where everything feeds smoothly.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 24/12/2019 7:06 pm
Anasz
(@anasz)
Active Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

@yannick-m4

Hello, it has been almost a year since this issue came up, how did it go? Did you manage to solve what was causing this? Was it the volumetric speed? The point to use bigger nozzle for me was to print faster, if I had to decrease the volumetric speed wouldn't it defeat the purpose in the first place?

As of today the exact same thing happened to me. Changing the nozzle for the first time from 0.4 (hardened) to 0.6 (brass). Clicking noise from extruder and underextrusion. Tried switching back to 0.4 and the problem gone. Put on 0.6 and they are back again. I was printing eSun PLA+, then prusament PLA at 215C, same thing. 

Posted : 02/11/2020 1:51 pm
yannick.m4
(@yannick-m4)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

I dont remember honestly what was causing the issue. For sure I noticed that the prime line is a very good indicator for the tension of the idle. I have now an empirical sheet with all the different filament I use and the associated length of screen's head. I measure with the caliper every time I change the filament. The prime line need to be the fattest  possible and consistent with the minimal torque apply on the screw.

For the big nozzle I share your feeling you don't print that fast but here is the dilemma : The part is stronger, I use it for structural purpose, it prints faster but not as expected, the dimensions  on X and Y are not as accurate compared to a 0.4 MM nozzle especially with inner and outer diameter on small parts. I need to adjust my slicer which is frustrating.

Now I always try to stick with the 0.4mm which seem to be the better nozzle for FDM printing.

Posted : 02/11/2020 3:34 pm
Anasz
(@anasz)
Active Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

@yannick-m4

Pity. Did you muck around the volumetric speed settings at all? I'll be sure to search more on this topic to see what is possible for the stock hotend. Otherwise I can see mosquito in the horizon 😉 

Posted : 02/11/2020 11:58 pm
Anasz
(@anasz)
Active Member
RE: Awful clicking noise from extruder

@yannick-m4

This problem was solved a few days ago when I consulted with prusa chat support (top notch by the way!!). The support rep ran a few tests and had me print a test cube. Turns out it was very simple. Tighten the extruder screw. That's it. The thinking was that larger nozzle requires more filament flow and if extruder screw is not tight enough it can cause the motor to slip and clicks, which then results in underextrusion. 

This issue is different than clogging although  both have same symptom. Thought you would like to know. 

Posted : 08/11/2020 12:37 pm
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