powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate
 

powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate  

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bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: Pablo Simone
I understand that they are consumable. But mine is new. I received it on wednesday

I agree 100%. Mine was about a week old when I took those pics. I reminded support that defective products are not subject to the "it's a consumable" deflection. Unfortunately I can't pursue this under the EU consumer protections myself, but I urge anybody in the EU experiencing issues to follow the appropriate consumer protection lines in search of help. Prusa has abandoned us on this one. I say this as someone who has a history of supporting the company. 

This post was modified 1 year ago by bobstro
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 19/08/2019 12:22 am
Pablo Simone
(@pablosimone)
Eminent Member
Posted by: joan.t

Prior to the print I washed rinsed and dried the print bed,

regards Joan

Hello Joan,

Washed with water?? It is supposed to oxidize if washed with water.

In theory, it shouldn't be done. But if it worked for you maybe I'll give a try

Posted : 19/08/2019 12:36 am
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member

I know what Prusa recommends about the powdered sheet.

But the fact remains I was not happy with it until I scrubbed it with water and Dawn. It needs it at least once.

I am quite happy now. I used powdered for PETG with great adhesion, and PEI for PLA.

Posted : 19/08/2019 3:28 pm
Pablo Simone
(@pablosimone)
Eminent Member
Posted by: rmm200

I know what Prusa recommends about the powdered sheet.

But the fact remains I was not happy with it until I scrubbed it with water and Dawn. It needs it at least once.

I am quite happy now. I used powdered for PETG with great adhesion, and PEI for PLA.

But it supposed to work with both. If you have to use the other sheet with PLA that means it does not work.

Posted : 19/08/2019 4:00 pm
bobstro liked
Pablo Simone
(@pablosimone)
Eminent Member

I found this on the updated handbook. Maybe coated pei sheet is not suitable for pla after all. 

Posted : 19/08/2019 7:50 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member
Posted by: Pablo Simone
Posted by: rmm200

I know what Prusa recommends about the powdered sheet.

But the fact remains I was not happy with it until I scrubbed it with water and Dawn. It needs it at least once.

I am quite happy now. I used powdered for PETG with great adhesion, and PEI for PLA.

But it supposed to work with both. If you have to use the other sheet with PLA that means it does not work.

The powdered sheet does work for PLA. I just prefer the PEI sheet for PLA. Smooth base texture, etc.

Posted : 20/08/2019 7:00 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: Pablo Simone

 

I found this on the updated handbook. Maybe coated pei sheet is not suitable for pla after all. 

Ah, so Prusa is using retroactive ninja-edits on their documentation as a basis for refusing to replace defective sheets, yet we're not allowed to edit posts more than a few minutes old. Nice.

Tried upping my bed temps. It improves adhesion but now I get massive elephant's foot results. Very disappointing.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 21/08/2019 12:13 pm
timo.m
(@timo-m)
Estimable Member

Though this may not solve the problem that Prusa underdelivered in the PLA case, hairspray (like 3DLac) is an easy fix to print PLA in the PC sheets. I always use 3DLac because I am not a huge fan of the rigorous cleaning procedures others recommend. It works like a charm and costs almost nothing compared to the cost of filament on a failed print. So far, I simply don't see the downside to using it.

Posted : 21/08/2019 4:18 pm
Pablo Simone
(@pablosimone)
Eminent Member
Posted by: bobstro
Posted by: Pablo Simone

 

I found this on the updated handbook. Maybe coated pei sheet is not suitable for pla after all. 

Ah, so Prusa is using retroactive ninja-edits on their documentation as a basis for refusing to replace defective sheets, yet we're not allowed to edit posts more than a few minutes old. Nice.

Tried upping my bed temps. It improves adhesion but now I get massive elephant's foot results. Very disappointing.

 

I don't think so. It's also in the printed manual that comes with the kit.
Increasing the temperature at 90C I have good results with petg. Now I''m testing with pla.
Yesterday I was able to print a full extruder replacement parts with petg and they come out fantastic.

Posted : 21/08/2019 4:25 pm
chocki
(@chocki)
Prominent Member

I found the textured sheet to be a poor surface for PLA, but PETG, now we are talking!.

PLA seems to leave a microscopic layer of something on the textured sheet which is quite non stick, what it is I don't know, but you can see it as a matt imprint of the part you tried to print.

I found a couple of overprints of PETG would usuallay be enough to shift it and allow PETG to stick properly.

Nowadays, I don't use the textured sheet for anything except PETG and TPU. For PLA, a smooth steel sheet with smooth PEI is much better.

For Polycarbonate, I use a black buildtak surface, but this actually sticks too well and ends up getting destroyed, but I don't ever want to hear that PC does not adhere and warps, your just using the wrong surface!. Some people say blue masking tape works well for polycarbonate, but I have yet to try this.

Normal people believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet....
Posted : 21/08/2019 6:01 pm
scottsh liked
jerry.m12
(@jerry-m12)
Active Member

Pretty much where I've landed with my PC sheet. I've tried every suggestion here and I can't get consistent PLA prints on the PC sheet. No problems at all with PETG (that's the only other material I've used on the PC). Oh well...

Posted : 22/08/2019 10:20 pm
scottsh
(@scottsh)
Active Member

The PC sheet is proving to be super challenging.  I get it to stick and work flawlessly one time, then I go 10x or 15x with no stick.  It is super frustrating.

I gave up on PLA after just simply not being able to get it to stick reliably.  One time it worked and got out an 18 hour print.  Otherwise nothing would stick.  First layer calibration wouldn't stick even with the nozzle way way too close.  I flooded the surface with IPA, scrubbed it vigorously and let it dry in the hopes that would fix it.  But no.

So I switched to PETG.  Everybody says the PC sheet is better for PETG so fine, I switched last night.  Initially, also zero adhesion of the first layer.  Nothing - not even the wipe! - would stick.  So I upped the bed temp to 85C - a little better, but not good.  I went further, and upped it to 90C - finally PETG stuck.  I'm about 10 hours into a 14 hour print and it's OK still.

Could it be my PC sheet simply doesn't transfer heat as well as the flat sheet?  After all, there is less contact with the bed.  I need an IR sensor or maybe a thermal probe for my Fluke to see what is going on at the surface of the sheet.

Posted : 23/08/2019 2:19 pm
Pablo Simone
(@pablosimone)
Eminent Member

Hello everyone.
I have been able to achieve these prints with this configuration.
Layer height: 0.15 layer 1: at 150% extrusion, 225 ° C / 85 ° C 20 mm / s
Rest of the layers: 210 ° C / 70 ° C  70mm/s
3 perimeters, 4 bottom, 4 up.
100% fan in layer 3.
I also use S3d with I think it's better because I like to start in layer 3 with 30% of the fan speed and every two layers increase by 10%.
Without brim and the warp is minimal.
The sheet was cleaned with ipa before the first print and the two galaxy black prints were sliced with prusaslicer and the other with s3d.

 
Posted : 23/08/2019 2:19 pm
scottsh
(@scottsh)
Active Member

Pablo - are you using PLA?  85C bed for PLA seems high but maybe not if that's required for the way the PC sheet transfers heat from the bed.

Also, if 150% extrusion on the first layer is required that just seems wrong.  I don't doubt it works for you, I'm saying it is not right that this should be required.

Posted : 23/08/2019 2:28 pm
jerry.m12
(@jerry-m12)
Active Member

@scottsh The profile I use for Generic PET (default one in PrusaSlicer) has bed temps at 85c for first layer, 90c for the rest of the print. That's pretty normal and I have no adhesion issues with PETG on the PC. I'm going to test some TPU this weekend, but I expect that it will go fine. 

Posted : 23/08/2019 2:32 pm
joan.t
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator

if you find the TPU sticks too well, try dribbling IPA onto the cold build plate against the bottom of the TPU, that usually helps the TPU release

 

regard

s Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 23/08/2019 5:31 pm
Pablo Simone
(@pablosimone)
Eminent Member
Posted by: scottsh

Pablo - are you using PLA?  85C bed for PLA seems high but maybe not if that's required for the way the PC sheet transfers heat from the bed.

Also, if 150% extrusion on the first layer is required that just seems wrong.  I don't doubt it works for you, I'm saying it is not right that this should be required.

Yes PLA. I agree, 85°C for pla is a lot! But I in the YT video, Josef said that the pla has to fill the gaps on the surface of the PCS. So in order to help addition, I lowered the Z, raised the temp of the extruder , the bed and increased the extrusion just for the first layer.

 

Posted : 23/08/2019 6:20 pm
scottsh
(@scottsh)
Active Member

Some data from the weekend.

I have sheet labelled BH-25.  My sheet has visible minor coloration differences that almost look like liquid flowing over the surface.  I haven't been able to get a good picture of this. IPA cleaning does not change this in any way.  Sticking issues are not impacted by this.

Prusa's included silver PLA would not reliably stick with bed temps set at 55C, 60C, and 65C.  I will try again at 70C.

I used Overture black PETG and got it to stick at a bed temp of 90C.  At 85C, the PETG would not stick.  I have printed with nozzle temps of 240C and 250C and both work.  All other settings were PrusaSlicer defaults for PET.

Cleaning with IPA is required after each print.  I attempted to print on the surface without cleaning, and PETG would not stick.  I had not touched the surface so I conclude it was something left behind (maybe dust or residue) on the surface.

Posted : 26/08/2019 2:16 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: scottsh

I have sheet labelled BH-25. 

Mine's WA-15. The description sounds very familiar. Uneven coloration across the sheet, and noticeable beading a build-up of coating on one edge where it dried.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 26/08/2019 2:43 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member

At this point it does not seem to mean much at all, but my textured sheet is also BH-25.

It is an absolutely even coating side to side, on both sides. Lettering is sharp and clear.

I use IPA wipes between PETG prints - occasionally. Typically when something breaks loose.

Normally the sheet is unmarked after a print.

Any chance any of the really bad sheets come from a supplier other than Prusa? It would be a ripe product for a knock-off.

Posted : 26/08/2019 3:37 pm
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