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nimaim
(@nimaim)
Trusted Member
0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

I feel like I switch between a 0.4mm and 0.6mm nozzle all too often (my nozzle of choice is a Micro Swiss plated, which is brass to retain good thermals but also nickel plated to handle the occasional abrasive; it works great and is fairly inexpensive). When I want to print bigger parts but still retain some detail, I use a 0.6mm, but when I need a more detailed print and get things like screw holes exactly to spec, I'll use a 0.4mm.

I figure I should just get a 0.5mm nozzle at this point (which theoretically should give me the best of both worlds), but my question is regarding Prusaslicer profiles, which "officially" only supports 0.25, 0.4, and 0.6 nozzle sizes. Having never tested with this, which one should I use with a 0.5mm? Or is it as simple as selecting the 0.4 profile to print lower layer heights like 0.10 / 0.15mm and then the 0.6 profile for 0.3 / 0.4mm? I know max volumetric speed differs between the profiles which is why I ask.

This topic was modified 2 years ago 2 times by nimaim
Posted : 02/02/2020 6:20 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

You need to change:

  • Nozzle size
  • Extrusion width
  • Later height

If you use extrusion width 0, the same print settings profile can be used with different nozzle sizes. I've got some sample profiles that you're welcome to try out.

As for Max volumetric speed, in my casual testing, there isn't a big difference between nozzle sizes. Larger nozzles tend to go a bit higher presumably due to lower back-pressure, but not significantly. I use 11.5mm^3/s as a safe default since I'm sharing profiles, but you can get higher if you're after performance (at the risk of some extruder clicks). 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 03/02/2020 1:49 pm
nimaim
(@nimaim)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

Ahh thanks bobstro! I've used your profiles in the past, didn't know you had updated them. Learned a lot from the articles on your site, much appreciated.

Posted : 03/02/2020 2:53 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

I think the startup gcode in my profiles is better now, especially in the cold months. Let me know if you spot any issues. Glad they're useful.

I think the 0.5mm nozzle size is well suited for general purpose printing, with a 0.25mm for miniatures and other detailed prints. I nearly made the jump a while back, but realized I'd be mounting a 0.4mm to help people with questions frequently. You've reminded me I want to order some of the P3-D coated nozzles in other sizes.

Let me know if you do any max volumetric rate testing. I've tried a few nozzles (not much difference) and materials, but nothing comprehensive.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 03/02/2020 4:20 pm
nimaim
(@nimaim)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

Yes 0.5mm is perfect for my purposes. I used a 0.6mm one for a while but some parts really require better horizontal resolution. I will test your updated profiles when my Micro Swiss 0.5 arrives. Do you still recommend P3-D’s Hercules as the best general purpose nozzle (as per your testing)? Any reason you haven't made the change to a TC one? I see rave reviews on it in this forum, but seems it goes well paired with something like the Mosquito; no need for it with the standard E3D V6 temp range.

This post was modified 2 years ago by nimaim
Posted : 03/02/2020 5:48 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?
Posted by: @nimaim

Yes 0.5mm is perfect for my purposes. I used a 0.6mm one for a while but some parts really require better horizontal resolution.

Agreed. 0.6mm does produce slightly rounded looking corners, whereas 0.5mm look sharp (IMO).

I will test your updated profiles when my Micro Swiss 0.5 arrives.

Please provide any feedback on any differences you note with the Micro Swiss. I haven't tried that brand yet.

Do you still recommend P3-D’s Hercules as the best general purpose nozzle (as per your testing)? Any reason you haven't made the change to a TC one? I see rave reviews on it in this forum, but seems it goes well paired with something like the Mosquito; no need for it with the standard E3D V6 temp range.

I really like P3-D's Apollo for a coated nozzle slightly harder than brass. Their Hercules is good, but is hardened steel, so in my mind is on part with E3D's Nozzle-X. Better than most raw hardened nozzle, but still not having the thermal characteristics of brass.

Have only not tried TC due to cost (and a busy year-end). I think those are the "ultimate" solution, though I'd like to see a coated one from P3-D or E3D.

 

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 03/02/2020 7:43 pm
nimaim
(@nimaim)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

Apollo then is basically equivalent to Micro Swiss's nozzle. Micro swiss twinclad xt is basically brass body with nickel composite coating. I've used the 0.4 and 0.6mm for years from them with great success. Its behaved better for me than nozzle X which requires increased temps. Looking forward to trying the 0.5 with your settings.

Agree with TC, it's too much for my blood to. Cost of one for those is like 4-5 other nozzles. The micro swiss is fine for abrasives but I also dont torture it with them constantly.

Posted : 03/02/2020 9:04 pm
Dan
 Dan
(@dan-7)
Active Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

I would like change my MK3S to a .5 nozzle as well. I downloaded and installed your sample profiles but I am unsure what to choose for setting to get the draft speed I'm used to with my .4 standard nozzle.

I changed the printer settings:

But I can't find a matching .5 option in the print settings:

Thanks for your help with this!

Dan

Posted : 27/06/2020 10:45 pm
Area51
(@area51)
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

Have been using Micro Swiss nickel coated nozzles for years and they haven't let med down yet. Haven't seen any wear down  on any of them, but I don't do a lot of abrasive materials. If it has been ordinary brass nozzles I would properly have changed them many times in the same period.

Have a look at my designs on Thingiverse or on PrusaPrinters ;)...
Posted : 28/06/2020 1:29 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?
Posted by: @dan-r16

I would like change my MK3S to a .5 nozzle as well. I downloaded and installed your sample profiles but I am unsure what to choose for setting to get the draft speed I'm used to with my .4 standard nozzle.

Just select the speed (QUALITY or SPEED) and layer height. The print profiles will automatically adjust for the nozzle size. QUALITY prints a bit slower and also prints a 3rd perimeter which slows down the print considerably. SPEED is a bit faster on speed and only prints 2 perimeters. If you would elaborate on what specifically your draft speed settings use, I may have other suggestions.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 28/06/2020 5:55 am
Dan
 Dan
(@dan-7)
Active Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

@bobstro

Can I adjust the layer height of the bottom most profile (the ones selected in blue in the screenshot above) to be 3.75 mm? I want to stay at 75% of nozzle diameter but if you think that that is too high I will keep your default.

Thanks so much for your help!

Posted : 29/06/2020 3:35 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?
Posted by: @dan-r16

[...] Can I adjust the layer height of the bottom most profile (the ones selected in blue in the screenshot above) to be 3.75 mm? I want to stay at 75% of nozzle diameter but if you think that that is too high I will keep your default.

For consistently good results, try to keep layer heights below 80% of your nozzle size. If you're printing with a 0.5mm nozzle, you should be OK up to about 0.4mm. Above that and extrusion will tend to be rounded and adhere poorly to layers above and below. Of course, as you increase layer height, you're increasing the amount of flow through the nozzle. Be prepared to adjust speeds if needed. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 01/07/2020 4:58 am
a-dude16
(@a-dude16)
Active Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

@bobstro Just to check my understanding.  With a 0.8mm nozzle,  layer height should be < 0.64.

I'll have to check out your notes.

Posted : 01/07/2020 12:51 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?
Posted by: @dudepron

@bobstro Just to check my understanding.  With a 0.8mm nozzle,  layer height should be < 0.64.

<= 0.64mm yes. It's not exact, and there won't be a big difference between 0.63 and 0.65mm, but it's a guideline for good results.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 01/07/2020 1:23 pm
Dan
 Dan
(@dan-7)
Active Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

@bobstro

Your profiles are working great with the .5 nozzle I purchased directly from prusa!

Is there a way to add a .5 nozzle in the prusa hardware settings on the printer itself? Currently the firmware only lists .4 and .6. every time I start a print that was sliced with your profile I get two warning screens. One says the G-Code was sliced for a different printer and the second says it was made for a different size nozzle.

I just click through both of them and things work fine but the estimated print times are way off and it would be nice if I could get rid of those screens.

Thanks again!

Posted : 01/07/2020 1:46 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Famed Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

You cant add a new nozzle size to the printer firmware, unless you want to change the source code and compile your own 🙂
However you can get rid of the warnings as they are triggered by a couple of lines in the start gcode in Prusa Slicer.  

In expert mode go to Printer Settings>Custom Gcode.  In the start gcode area will be these lines

M862.3 P "[printer_model]" ; printer model check
M862.1 P[nozzle_diameter] ; nozzle diameter check
M115 U3.9.0 ; tell printer latest fw version

You can comment those out and the printer wont check for the entry or entries you remove.

Posted : 01/07/2020 3:15 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?
Posted by: @dan-r16

[...] Your profiles are working great with the .5 nozzle I purchased directly from prusa!

Glad they're working well for you. I like to play around with different nozzles as you may have noticed.

Is there a way to add a .5 nozzle in the prusa hardware settings on the printer itself? Currently the firmware only lists .4 and .6. every time I start a print that was sliced with your profile I get two warning screens. One says the G-Code was sliced for a different printer and the second says it was made for a different size nozzle.

Unfortunately, there's not easy way to add additional nozzle sizes in the Prusa checks. The specific issue you're having is with these 2 lines in the start gcode (Printer Settings->Custom G-code->Start G-code).

M862.3 P "[printer_model]" ; printer model check
M862.1 P[nozzle_diameter] ; nozzle diameter check

Recent firmware versions have included these safety checks. I left those lines in the gcode, but if you comment them out or delete them, it should avoid the checks. I personally disabled the checks in my printer settings since I'm the only user and I find them more of a bother than it's worth.

I'm making some updates to the configs and will remove those checks. Thanks for the feedback.

I just click through both of them and things work fine but the estimated print times are way off and it would be nice if I could get rid of those screens.

I haven't done a sanity check on the print times recently. Are you finding them way off with both the SPEED and QUALITY settings?

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 01/07/2020 4:36 pm
Dan
 Dan
(@dan-7)
Active Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

@bobstro

I have only used a modified version of your Speed profile with layer height of 3.75.

Prusa slicer said 10h51m

Actual print time was 13h53m

I figured it was because of all the non standard changes but it would be great to get it more accurate if possible.

I don't mind having the warning screens on by default. I can comment them out but it is a good check to make sure the correct nozzle is on otherwise.

Were is the best place to submit a feature request to prusa for .5 nozzle support?

Posted : 01/07/2020 4:44 pm
RedTrain
(@redtrain)
New Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?

Hello all

I chose to try the Prusa 0.5 mm nozzle on my mk3s before realizing it is not supported as a standard size by Prusa. @bobstro - thanks a lot for sharing the profiles and insights on your information rich webpages, it's highly appreciated. Right now, it prints my first functional object with your profiles at 0.4 mm layer height, it's looking fine. The warm-up procedure is quite interesting, taking a bit more time but it seems to make sense and your code is well commented - thanks again.

Q: when starting a print, the mk3s complains that the code was sliced for a different printer, since the profile was made for the mk3.
- How would I correct this and do I need to change certain settings for the mk3s? Thanks for a feedback.

Posted : 20/11/2020 9:54 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: 0.5mm Nozzle Settings?
Posted by: @redtrain

[...] Q: when starting a print, the mk3s complains that the code was sliced for a different printer, since the profile was made for the mk3.
- How would I correct this and do I need to change certain settings for the mk3s? 

Read my response to @dan-r16 2 posts above your question! 😀 

It's a line in the gcode that you can adjust, comment out or remove.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 20/11/2020 3:33 pm
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