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Very odd first layer problems  

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Woody
(@woody-3)
New Member
Very odd first layer problems

Summary; New Build.  MK3s, firmware updated to the latest version (3.8.1), bass string tension on belts.  Used the zip-tie pinda offset method.  Z calibration seems to go well, oddity when printing objects.  Have reset and performed the startup wizard several times.  Preflight comes back good.  When printing, first layer is "sloppy" as heck, subsequent layers seem to be to "tight" (nozzle dragging).  See photos below.  Same issues with both textured and smooth sheets.  This is the top and bottom of the same item.

Ugh.  🤔 

Long(er) version;  First, thanks for looking at this.  Second, I'm stuck.  I have built other printers (2 of them MK2's) and have not seen this kind of oddity.  I have washed the hell out of the beds, thinking it was an adhesion issue, I have cranked the Z down to the deck, where it's almost dragging.  The first layer looks to "high" and the subsequent layers look to "low".  I have re-tensioned the belts wondering if they were too tight.  The pictures all all of the same part (the Prusa logo) using the included Prusa PLA.  (Note: some pictures are taken on my mouse pad that bears a striking resemblance to the textured sheet.)

Whew. 😟 

Third, I would appreciate any direction or assistance that the community can offer.  (You folks are awesome!)

 

Posted : 27/03/2020 3:55 pm
Woody
(@woody-3)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Very odd first layer problems

Ultimately, this was a first layer adhesion issue. After hours and hours I have it tuned in for both the smooth and textured sheets. 

I wish I understood how finicky the textured sheet was with PLA when I started the process. Here is my "fix" if you are having an issue like this. 

 

1. Loosen and re-tighten both belts. Do it the way the manual and videos show you too.

2. Loosen the screws on the bed, and re-tighten them in the prescribed fashion (it matters)

2a. Redo all of your pinda offset settings. If you are doing the zip tie method, try it at a couple of points on the board. Plan to redo everything bed related a couple of times, if needed.

2b. Wash your sheets in the sink with plenty of dishsoap. Wash them twice. If you have a textured sheet, wash it again. Dry without putting your fingers on the surface. Plan to hit them with alcohol or Windex before you start printing. 

3. Turn in the 7x7 mesh leveling. (there are plenty of great guides here in the forum on this.)

4. Use the "life adjust z - my way" guide here in the forum. Just do that. You will save yourself so much time.

5. Don't be afraid to stop, and restart the while process. A great first layer is totally worth it. 

 

I hope this helps someone in the future.

Posted : 29/03/2020 4:57 am
Steve
(@steve-5)
Trusted Member
RE: Very odd first layer problems

Tejawood,

Glad to hear you got your problem resolved.  One quick note, don't use Windex or any similar chemicals on your build sheet UNLESS you are trying to reduce adhesion (for instance PETg on the smooth PEI sheet).  Also, most will say stay away from the IPA as well.  If you don't touch your sheet after a thorough scrubbing there isn't any oil to remove and IPA just tends to smear it around anyway (it is not a great surfactant).

Happy printing,

Steve

Posted : 30/03/2020 3:50 am
Jerry
(@jerry)
Trusted Member
RE: Very odd first layer problems

Here's how I think about the texture plate. It has more surface area t h a n the smooth build plate. That's basically why it sticks better. The materials are the same essentially it's the applications that are different. Powder coat makes a rough surface and more of it. You have to squish all the way down 2 the bottom all of the low spots. On my sheet I have to push that deep in order 4 the lines to bond.

If you have a Jeweler's loupe look at your first layers on the powder coated sheet when you print on it. If the lines are not touching and bonded you did not go deep enough particularly this is true for pla.

If you don't have a Jeweler's loupe they're cheap. My eyes can't see anything without one regarding the fine details of print

Posted : 30/03/2020 6:36 pm
Jerry
(@jerry)
Trusted Member
RE: Very odd first layer problems

Here's how I think about the texture plate. It has more surface area t h a n the smooth build plate. That's basically why it sticks better. The materials are the same essentially it's the applications that are different. Powder coat makes a rough surface and more of it. You have to squish all the way down 2 the bottom all of the low spots. On my sheet I have to push that deep in order 4 the lines to bond.

If you have a Jeweler's loupe look at your first layers on the powder coated sheet when you print on it. If the lines are not touching and bonded you did not go deep enough particularly this is true for pla.

If you don't have a Jeweler's loupe they're cheap. My eyes can't see anything without one regarding the fine details of print

Posted : 30/03/2020 6:36 pm
Jerry
(@jerry)
Trusted Member
RE: Very odd first layer problems

Here's how I think about the texture plate. It has more surface area t h a n the smooth build plate. That's basically why it sticks better. The materials are the same essentially it's the applications that are different. Powder coat makes a rough surface and more of it. You have to squish all the way down 2 the bottom all of the low spots. On my sheet I have to push that deep in order 4 the lines to bond.

If you have a Jeweler's loupe look at your first layers on the powder coated sheet when you print on it. If the lines are not touching and bonded you did not go deep enough particularly this is true for pla.

If you don't have a Jeweler's loupe they're cheap. My eyes can't see anything without one regarding the fine details of print

Posted : 30/03/2020 6:37 pm
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