powder coated bed not sticking without glue?  

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charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@anachronist

Come talk to me when both adjusting the Z, IPA, and Alcohol all fail to work.  That is when I use Acetone.  

Posted : 11/07/2020 9:45 pm
Karl Herbert
(@karl-herbert)
Famed Member

@charles-h13

After printing ASA or ABS I occasionally use acetone, otherwise I clean the printing plate (foiled and textured) mostly circularly with a very fine sandpaper (1000-grit) and water. Sometimes first with 400-grit and then with the 1000-grit. The material removal is very small.

Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen....
Posted : 11/07/2020 10:02 pm
Anachronist
(@anachronist)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @charles-h13

@anachronist

Come talk to me when both adjusting the Z, IPA, and Alcohol all fail to work.  That is when I use Acetone.  

Well... when Z adjustment and 99% isopropyl alcohol all fail to work, I wash the sheet with warm water and dish soap. That has been working, and it's needed every 6-10 prints, at least for my powder-coated sheet. Maybe I just don't have a good one.

As I said before, the sheet is a consumable item. When washing it stops working, I'll start experimenting. I'll try abrading one side of it with steel wool, and print PVA all over the other side and peel it off to see if that has an effect. Acetone would be a last resort.

@bobstro -- If I ever see it start flaking, I'll buy another one. Where did you get your clone sheet?

Posted : 12/07/2020 1:17 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @anachronist

@bobstro -- If I ever see it start flaking, I'll buy another one. Where did you get your clone sheet?

I went with TheKKIINNGG off Amazon. I really didn't like the company's practices early on -- there were lots of complaints and no remedies with early versions -- but my v4 has been a solid performer for PLA and PETG with only the infrequent Dawn bath.

I suppose Prusa is no better in terms of warranty on the expensive textured sheets. I was saddened to see Prusa cede the moral big ground on these.

I believe @charles-h13 has done more extensive testing and posted results.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 12/07/2020 2:59 am
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@bobstro

TheKKIINNGG is a pretty good surface to print on.  It mirrors Prusa's pretty good and it superior is some ways.  

Posted : 12/07/2020 3:21 am
Karl Herbert
(@karl-herbert)
Famed Member

@charles-h13

The Thekkiinngg for the Prusa MK3 / S is certainly very good, but very difficult or not available in Europe - as so many US products 🙁

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Karl Herbert
Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen....
Posted : 12/07/2020 1:11 pm
troubadix
(@troubadix)
Active Member

@anachronist

It seems that PLA sticks better to the areas where PVA had been [...]

 

No wonder. Guess what gluesticks like the one that came with the printer contain
...or wood glue or UHU, a famous german glue brand. Yup, PVA.

Btw: Guess what makes chewing gums stick to the pavement. You get the idea.

 

A short video which shows the z-height calibration of the powder-coated steelsheet
by "thehardwareguy":

 

Remark: since firmware 3.8.x the calibration for smooth and textures sheet
can be stored separately, so a recalibration is not necessary anymore when
switching between sheets.

 

Happy Printing!

MK3S MMU2, PEI + Powder Coated Sheets, Prusa Slicer, Arch Linux...
Posted : 12/07/2020 8:56 pm
harry.s2
(@harry-s2)
Active Member

I have used many powder coated sheets, they all work well, and now that Prusa has them in stock I add them to any order as long as shipping stays the same. I have more than I need, but these printers print and print and print, so I will one day use them.

WHEN IS THE XL COMING 🙂 ????

Posted : 14/07/2020 2:29 am
justin.pierson
(@justin-pierson)
Active Member

Wow! I just got a new one a few months ago (mine shipped with the smooth one) and I haven't had any luck with prints sticking, if I push the z down any further, it will be embedding the pla into the sheet lol. I have hand washed it (seriously?!) and used IPA with no luck. Most prints look like they are sticking then 20 minutes later its all spaghetti. Honestly I thought it was the filament till I pulled out a cheap surface you get as a bonus with some filaments and once I added it to an old metal sheet I had with another printer, it prints with no issues. My suggestion get a pex, I have one for every one of my other printers, and one of those is over 7 months old and still prints like the first day with only a once a week wipe down with IPA.

Posted : 24/07/2020 8:56 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Reputable Member

Justin, out of curiosity, what is the code on the upper right-hand corner of your textured sheet?

Mine is WA-10.

I have a feeling that some of this far-too-common will-not-stick-to-textured-sheet-no-matter-what-I-do issue may be related to that 'quality' issue that Prusa reported so many months ago.

I've had fairly good luck with mine, and except for one case (below) if the first layer lays down correctly, the print will finish successfully.  By trial and error, if the first layer bombs, I've used either a brim (mostly for smaller footprints) or a wee bit of the Kores glue stick.

The one time it did not work is shown below, which is the closest I've ever gotten to the Blob Of Doom.  I wandered away from the printer during a fairly simple print and came back to find what was the part being dragged around the print bed like a futile attempt to walk a cat on a leash.  A small blob had formed around the nozzle, which heat, gravity, and a gentle pull took care of.

Posted : 24/07/2020 10:32 pm
justin.pierson
(@justin-pierson)
Active Member

@jsw

TF-26, the smooth one that mine was shipped with has great adhesion, but it really is tough to get some prints off like PETG and just forget using TPU with the smooth one... which is why I wanted the textured since they say it works the best with everything... 

Posted : 24/07/2020 11:56 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Reputable Member

Yes, you appear to have one from a different source than the one I have.

Anyone else want to chime in on the code on their plate(s) and if you have generally good or generally poor adhesion of the first layer?

Posted : 25/07/2020 12:19 am
Anachronist
(@anachronist)
Trusted Member

@jsw - mine's BH-25. I had bad adhesion problems at first, which improved by regular washing with warm water and dish soap every half-dozen or so prints. I deliberately scratched the white triangle on the edge of one side so that I can distinguish each side, and I always print on the same side of the sheet. The other side has never been used. The more I use it, the more it seems to be getting "seasoned" in the similar way as a cast iron pot. If I touch the edge and it feels slippery instead of squeaky clean, I know it's time for another soap+water washing.

When I started using PVA soluble support, I noticed that PVA stuck to the sheet really well. The PVA took some effort to peel off, and it left a mark behind on the sheet -- and it seems like PLA now sticks better to the places were PVA had been. This suggests that printing a grid of PVA all over the sheet, and then peeling it off, might improve its adhesion for PLA.

Otherwise, I deal with the poor adhesion by using brims on most of my parts. That helps a lot, to increase the surface area contact of my print.

Posted : 25/07/2020 12:35 am
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@anachronist

Same here.  Some times I need a bed adhesive.  I really like:

  • 3D Printer Adhesive Glue by Layerneer - It is listed as a thermal dynamic coating that works like magic allowing parts to stick at hot and release when cooled. It dries fast and non tacky once dry. I get several prints per application till I have to reapply and it comes in a handing applicator. It comes off with soal and water. I rate this stuff just a little better than glue sticks and on par with the hair spray.
Posted : 25/07/2020 12:48 am
Anachronist
(@anachronist)
Trusted Member

@charles-h13 - you put that on a powder-coated steel sheet? The description says near the bottom "Applying to ... flexible magnetic beds, is not supported."

Posted : 25/07/2020 12:52 am
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@anachronist

I have not had an issue with the steel flexible print beds. I have had an issue with the soft magnetic bed for the ender.  

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by charles.h13
Posted : 25/07/2020 1:14 am
justin.pierson
(@justin-pierson)
Active Member

I am confused, I really thought that this bed was not suppose to have these issues, I mean delicately washing it and adding special layers? I really though the old days of using stick glue and masking tape was over, I am still using the original bed on two of my ender 3's and they have been printing nearly nonstop for over a year now, and I print petg, tpu, and pla.

Posted : 25/07/2020 1:37 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @justin-pierson

I am confused, I really thought that this bed was not suppose to have these issues, I mean delicately washing it and adding special layers? I really though the old days of using stick glue and masking tape was over, I am still using the original bed on two of my ender 3's and they have been printing nearly nonstop for over a year now, and I print petg, tpu, and pla.

Let's just say "experiences vary". I've read reports by many people who love theirs and have no reason to doubt them. My experience was a disaster and I had no success with any filament. @vintagepc did a bit of an autopsy on it after I shipped it to him and indeed, it had different adhesive characteristics than his. Whether from manufacture or my efforts is open to debate. My TheKKIINGG replacement works exactly as expected. My only conclusion is that buying a printer with only a Prusa textured sheet is a bad idea. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 25/07/2020 2:47 am
charles.h13
(@charles-h13)
Famed Member

@bobstro

I think it really depends upon the particular sheet in the age of the sheet. Each sheet is different.

Posted : 25/07/2020 3:16 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Reputable Member

That's interesting, bobstro.

In looking at your blog photos, it looks like the code in the corner is WA-15, which would indicate to me that it was probably the same vendor as mine, but a different batch.  It's quite evident that you got a bad one and I got a good one, so the variable here appears to be the batch from the manufacturer.  You getting a bad one is verified since you immediately had good prints with TheKKIINNG (I get almost weekly spams from Amazon as 'something I might like', but I don't need it right now).

It appears that some sheets are definitely good and some are definitely bad.

I use the textured sheet when I want that unique finish that they give, but normally I use the smooth sheet.

Posted : 25/07/2020 3:31 am
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