PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Just got my MK3s assembled and everything checks out. Now doing my first test prints direct form the SD cards but I'm having issues with PLA staying fully adhered to the PEI Sheet.
Here is my checklist:
- Cleaned PEI Sheet with 91% Isopropyl alcohol prior to printing
- No glue or any other adhesive technique was used on the surface. All the documentation I see gives the impression that this is not needed for Powder Coated and PLA. (Stated in the official video and manual)
- First Layer Calibration looks reasonable (see images below). I had adjusted it just until it appeared to low in a previous First layer calibration and then I backed off just a hair. If I go any lower the surface printed at the end of the First Layer calibration gets messy leading me to believe it is to low.
- Prusa Logo test printed clean but did have a minor lift from print bed in 1 corner. Although that was on my 3rd attempt after multiple First Layer Calibrations and tightening my X-Axis properly
- Heated bed is functioning. I have no experience with a heated bed but thought that was a feature that would improve adhesion. Should it be off with PLA?
- My home's ambient temperature is 79F (26C)
Conclusion
Perhaps I'm under extruding a bit and I need to tighten up the bondtech gear? (I'm thinking this due to two other issues that I hadn't thought related at first: Some air gaps in the print and the first layer appearance when looking at the buddy print) Or, the PEI isn't as magical as I had hoped. It seems I might have to use glue stick anyways and should have gotten the smooth steel sheet instead.
Any help from a veteran printer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Russ
Best Answer by --:
As Joan says. Clean is essential. Also - the PC sheet needs a bit lower layer 1 compared to the PEI sheet; this is to ensure the surface texture is fully filled. It also helps with adhesion. The bottom of the pug looks under extruded (nozzle too high for layer one). You could change Live-Z another -25 or even -50 um and see if that helps. You do not want any spaces between extrusion tracks - they should be firmly welded together and almost invisible.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
I have the same problem here.
My second print with the Prusa, I have cleaned with the wipe in the box. 
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
This veteran printer,does things which are frowned upon by Prusa
I wash both my smooth and textured build plates. With dishwash soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water and dry with a clean dry plain paper towel.
No other surface preparation...
I have been printing narrow items 55 at a time. Straight onto the build plate. As belt and braces. I did add a 2mm wide 0.2mm thick strip through the middle of 11 models in each of 5 strips To stabilise the models because they are tall and narrow
Regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
As Joan says. Clean is essential. Also - the PC sheet needs a bit lower layer 1 compared to the PEI sheet; this is to ensure the surface texture is fully filled. It also helps with adhesion. The bottom of the pug looks under extruded (nozzle too high for layer one). You could change Live-Z another -25 or even -50 um and see if that helps. You do not want any spaces between extrusion tracks - they should be firmly welded together and almost invisible.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
This veteran printer,does rhings which are frowned upon by Prusa
I wash both my smooth and textured build plates. With dishwash soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water and dry with a clean dry plain paper towel.
No other surface preparation...
I have been printing narrow items 55 at a time. Straightconto the build plate. As belt and braces. I did add a 2mm wide 0.2mm thick strip through the middle of 11 models in each of 5 strips
To stabilise the models because they are tall and narrow
Regards Joan
And you don't use isopropanol?
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Alcohol must be used correctly. If you use a small amount on a paper towel, and your fingers aren't perfectly clean, the alcohol grabs the oils from your fingers and moves it to the bed ... but in a very fine layer you can't really see.
To best use alcohol to clean, you need to wear gloves, use plenty of alcohol, and do several passes with fresh towels every pass.
Soap and water works best because you use gallons of water to rinse. I doubt you use that much alcohol to rinse.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
ps: as an FYI, you have a Powder Coated sheet, not what is commonly referred to as a PEI sheet. The PC sheets use a PEI material called Ultem that is sputtered on for texture rather than an actual smooth adhesive sheet applied to to the spring steel. Small minor distinction, but worth keeping in mind when asking for help. PC requires slightly different tricks than PEI.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
I wash both my smooth and textured build plates. With dishwash soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water and dry with a clean dry plain paper towel.
No other surface preparation...
This is a good alternative to know and in a way reassuring! But, I'm certain I had a properly clean surface...
As Joan says. Clean is essential. Also - the PC sheet needs a bit lower layer 1 compared to the PEI sheet; this is to ensure the surface texture is fully filled. It also helps with adhesion. The bottom of the pug looks under extruded (nozzle too high for layer one). You could change Live-Z another -25 or even -50 um and see if that helps. You do not want any spaces between extrusion tracks - they should be firmly welded together and almost invisible.
I think this was the majority of my issue. I adjusted the z another -65um. I also moved the printer upstairs where it is warmer. (I had it sitting on the floor near a door that may have had a draft). Pleased to say that I printed another PRUSA nameplate and the Benchy without any lifting from the build plate.
Also, I think the online guide / manual lead people with PC sheet astra here. I was using the pictures to determine what was to low (normal PEI sheet) and the difference is confusing. I should have known better as I've printed on FlashForge Finder's textured surface for a year and I knew to really mash the PLA of the first layer down into the texture.
Thanks for the patient responses,
Russ
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
I have tried to ajust my Z but didn't work to good. Then I have washed my PC and that fixt te problem. Thanks a lot!
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
ps: as an FYI, you have a Powder Coated sheet, not what is commonly referred to as a PEI sheet. The PC sheets use a PEI material called Ultem that is sputtered on for texture rather than an actual smooth adhesive sheet applied to to the spring steel. Small minor distinction, but worth keeping in mind when asking for help. PC requires slightly different tricks than PEI.
I realized that distinction after submitting my post, but am unable to figure out how to edit the title!? Thanks for the extra explanation!
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Both of these printed straight on the washed build plate, no isopropanol, no glue, no nothing, bed temp 70C. 1st layer 215C, remaining layers 210C
these models were printed on textured buildplate
the tags were removed with a noga deburring tool
less than £4.00 on ebay.
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Do you use the de-burring tool to remove the first-layer "elephants foot" from around the parts? I just watched a video of it being used on aluminum so it seems really sharp for cutting plastic.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Hi there
My pla prints won't stick to the PC sheet.
My question is that people say to clean the sheet with dishwash soap and water but in prusa site it says do not use water. Can I have a clear answer please
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Hi Kisao,
there is no clear answer.
I have several powder coated build plates from Prusa, they have all been washed with Dish Soap, rinsed with clean, hot water and dried immediately with clean paper towels, and they all work with PLA. other people use other preparations with different levels of success.
each party will claim their own process is the only true solution to the problem... so take Your pick!
These parts were printed in PLA, and they have minimal contact area.
I used 70C for the bed temperature... and otherwise standard generic PLA settings
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
[...] My pla prints won't stick to the PC sheet.
My question is that people say to clean the sheet with dishwash soap and water but in prusa site it says do not use water. Can I have a clear answer please
As @joantabb says, do what works. The reality is that there's effectively no warranty on the textured powder-coated sheets. Contact support and they're likely to quickly respond with something along that lines of "they're consumables". This means that you want to try to use the manufacturer-recommended cleaning procedure (91%+ isopropyl alcohol), but if you've calibrated your Live-Z and are still unable to get good adhesion -- particularly with PLA -- there's really no reason not to try other measures. My experience sounds very similar to Joan's in that a wash with Dawn and drying with plain paper towels works amazingly well with most PEI surfaces.
Some folks have even resorted to buffing the sheet with a ScothBrite pad, though I wouldn't use anything more abrasive than a 3M 7445. Definitely a last resort. Unfortunately, even those measures didn't suffice for my Prusa textured sheet. A wipe with acetone helped, but only a bit. I was unable to get good adhesion even with PETG, so have decided not to bother and ditched the Prusa sheet for one that works as advertised. I've been printing heavily over the last 2 weeks and have only washed that thing twice.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
@bobstro @joan et al.
I have had fairly good success using 91% IPA but here is my little trick. I did wash the PC sheets (I have 2), with soapy water once to clean them up and then only Alcohol. What I do is FLOOD the sheet with IPA and let sit for as long as it will stay on the sheet. Then I wipe it off is a swirling motion. All done with a NEW blue paper shop towel wipe that I throw away after one use. I ONLY handle my plates with white cotton gloves and clean hands. I also rotate the plate from top to bottom and switch between plates with each print. I run my printer almost 24x7 this way and though I mostly do PETG I mix in PLA quite a bit. I have no adhesion problems and prints have a nice imprint of the plate on the bottoms. Smaller parts I will use a brim, Unlike Joan.
So here is what is happening, AFAIK, oils from hands and plastic are left as residue on the plates EASILY making the next print not stick well. Since I flood the sheet and let the IPA stay on there as long as I can, I am using the liquid contact time to release the grease. I have only washed my plates once since I got them and have been using them steadily for over 6 months straight.
Just my added 2 cents worth.
Robin
I am the inveterate tinkerer. I can tink up most anything.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
[...] So here is what is happening, AFAIK, oils from hands and plastic are left as residue on the plates EASILY making the next print not stick well. Since I flood the sheet and let the IPA stay on there as long as I can, I am using the liquid contact time to release the grease. I have only washed my plates once since I got them and have been using them steadily for over 6 months straight.
Robin, appreciate your post. Suffice to say, I tried multiple rounds of cleaning the thing with no success. The "other brand" textured sheet worked exactly as expected and has been a workhorse, as have my smooth PEI sheets.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
@bobstro
Any chanced you could message me that other model sheet? I only have the textured sheet from prusa and its not doing the job 🙁
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
I got that linke @bostro. Thank you! And the dishsoap method worked for me as well @joantabb. Thank you both for better support than I had received elsewhere.
RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet
Cheers Richard,
We do our best.
Some things sound odd, but, I would never suggest something that I wouldn't do with my own printer!
regards
Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK