MK3S kit and first print failures.  

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zaerog
(@zaerog)
Active Member

Hi,

So i finished building my mk3s kit yesterday and was so excited that it works, but I seem to only get failures from the pre sliced gcodes on the sd card. At first I had an adhesion issue (I got the powder coated texture sheet), did the first layer calibration numerous times and also gave the sheet a good cleaning with soap and then alcohol swaps and it seems better, but still failed my most recent print the benchy.

Any suggestions or tips?

edit: better picture https://imgur.com/tRDoR1c if you select the Link to: Media File option at the bottom right of the Add Media dialogue box, the image becomes click able

regards Joan, (Moderator)

This topic was modified 1 year ago by JoanTabb
Posted : 23/08/2019 9:49 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator

this is unusual! especially with pre sliced models.
Is your printing room particularly warm? 

the Prusa logo has a slight over extrusion, as this is a pre sliced model, you can't reduce the extrusion multiplier, so I would suggest that you use the LCD Settings > flow option to reduce the flow a little, the chances are that flow is currently set to 95% if this is correct, try re printing with flow set to 93%.
can you let us see the underside of the Prusa logo, so that we can see how the first layer is going down? 

regards Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 24/08/2019 12:57 am
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member

Only apparent problem with Benchy is breaking loose.

I suggest slicing from the STL and add a brim.

PC sheets take some breaking in. Mine continues to get better.

In the meantime - I suggest a smooth sheet for PLA or get a roll of PETG.

And as always - listen to Joan.

Posted : 24/08/2019 1:11 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator

Thanks for the vote of confidence

Regards Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 24/08/2019 1:45 am
zaerog
(@zaerog)
Active Member

The other issue with the prusa logo was the bottom corner of the "A" is weirdly bent upwards for some reason.

Anyway as you can see I did a lot of first layer testing as I think the issue is bed adhesion and Im honestly not sure how the first layer is supposed to look. In the meantime I went to the store and got 91% isopropyl alcohol and cotton swaps and cleaned the bed again. The other thing I did was to download Cura and import the prusa mk3s profiles there. I then sliced my own version of benchy with default values, except I added a 10mm brim and its currently printing but should be done real quick. I havent changed the extrusion percentage yet, I will attempt that later. 

Posted : 24/08/2019 2:20 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator

your bottom layer is looking pretty good. 

Have you tried washing the build plate with Dish soap and water and rinsing withhot water, then drying with a clean paper towel, and not touching the build surface afterwards? 

Works for me! 

Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK...
Posted : 24/08/2019 2:36 am
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member

Your Prusa corner is raised because it lost adhesion at that point.

Scrub vigorously with Dawn and rinse with lots of water. Only do this once a month or so... This is against Prusa recommendations as it is.

Same with the alcohol (I use 99%). Be generous, and scrub it off with a paper towel. I would ditch the cotton swabs. They leave fibers. Use the alcohol wipe frequently. I seem to do it after maybe 5 prints.

The more you print - the better the PC sheet will get.

Posted : 24/08/2019 2:43 am
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 -2
(@-2)
Illustrious Member

A third opinion: the layer 1 looks a bit too high : that is, the nozzle should be a bit lower to the bed.  The infill should be a solid mass, no gaps or valleys between passes.  

Here's a better cal target for Live-Z (the printer Live-Z is painful. You want something large enough you have time to make changes and see the results.

Cal Circles

ps: add one more "Wash the PC sheet in soap and water," dry thoroughly then bake on printer at 80c for 30 minutes to dry out the sputter.  Handle print sheets only by the edges. Fingerprints are the enemy of adhesion.

 

This post was modified 1 year ago by --
It is always wise to get more than one opinion... as for trusting Prusa? No way man....
Posted : 24/08/2019 6:48 am
Robin
(@robin-4)
Estimable Member

Get some Scotch brite pads. You may need the fine ones for the textured surface. I use them with Windex to clear the PEI sheets and it works fine. Textured sheet can be tricky to get it to stick

Posted : 24/08/2019 9:34 am
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 -2
(@-2)
Illustrious Member

In my time printing, I've never had to resort to sanding my sheets to get great adhesion. Just getting them clean is enough.

It is always wise to get more than one opinion... as for trusting Prusa? No way man....
Posted : 24/08/2019 9:37 am
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member

I am glad Scotch Brite works for Robin. Personally I would never use anything abrasive on PEI (includes PC).

That is not a surface like steel.

Posted : 24/08/2019 4:30 pm
zaerog
(@zaerog)
Active Member

At first thanks so much for all the suggestions. So when I use cura and slice benchy it printed really well as you can see. After this I went back to the pre loaded sd card models and I printed the whistle numerous times and everytime the part where it closes the whistle up, the plastic seems to not attach to the other side or simply melt down. Thats the same thing that happened to the benchy too.

Changes I made:

- I decreased the flow to 90 and then 88 % 

- I decreased the nozzle temperature from 215 to 210

- then lastly I changed the silver pla to the galaxy black prusament

However all whistles had the same error.

 

Also I only own the textured powder coated sheet, now in retrospect I should have gotten the regular PEI sheet or both.

This post was modified 1 year ago by zaerog
Posted : 24/08/2019 7:08 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member

The only - only - negative to the powder coated sheet is first layer adhesion.

Once you get above the first layer, if you have no adhesion problems, the surfaces have no effect on the rest of the model.

With enough use, if the powder coated is really clean - it is great for PLA. It is the only way to go for PETG.

Posted : 24/08/2019 7:52 pm
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 -2
(@-2)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: zaerog

Also I only own the textured powder coated sheet, now in retrospect I should have gotten the regular PEI sheet or both.

Wash the PC sheet in soap and hot water, use ONLY fresh paper towels to wash and dry, handle only by the edges. Dry on printer at 80c for 30 minutes.

The whistle looks like the infill overlap has been tweaked, thus the failure.  A common issue is some interior infill bridging droop, but not a total collapse; so plastic isn't sticking to the walls. Reducing flow may have caused the problem: if anything, increase flow.

Use only the default MK3/s printer, Prusament PLA filament, and 0.15 mm Quality print profiles (make no changes).  Try it again.  Or, print the gcode off the SD card.  Seriously, they print really well with no changes.

What I've noticed is people bring their Cura and S3D habits and try to apply them to P.Slicer - and end up having problems. The slicer defaults are tuned pretty well to work with the printer. 

This post was modified 1 year ago by --
It is always wise to get more than one opinion... as for trusting Prusa? No way man....
Posted : 24/08/2019 8:14 pm
--
 -2
(@-2)
Illustrious Member

And one last thought rereading the thread: is the print fan coming on when printing the whistle?

This post was modified 1 year ago by --
It is always wise to get more than one opinion... as for trusting Prusa? No way man....
Posted : 24/08/2019 8:55 pm
Robin
(@robin-4)
Estimable Member
Posted by: rmm200

I am glad Scotch Brite works for Robin. Personally I would never use anything abrasive on PEI (includes PC).

That is not a surface like steel.

It’s not sandpaper 

Posted : 24/08/2019 9:53 pm
rmm200
(@rmm200)
Noble Member

This is what Wikipedia has to say about Scotch-Brite products:

Scotch-Brite is a line of abrasive products produced by 3M. The product line includes scouring pads and tools for home uses such as dish washing and scrubbing, as well as various types of surfaces for industrial applications, such as discs, belts, and rotating brushes, with varying compositions and levels of hardness.

The structure of Scotch-Brite pads is created by a sparse unwoven polymer such as CelluloseNylon or spun polypropylene fiber. Products use several variations of hardening and abrasive materials, such as Aluminum oxide (alumina), Titanium dioxide and resins[1]. Although the base polymers may be considered benignly soft, the composition with other materials greatly enhances their abrasive powers; to the extent that a heavy-duty Scotch-Brite pad (which contains both Aluminum oxide and Titanium oxide) will actually scratch glass.

Posted : 24/08/2019 10:02 pm
-- liked
--
 -2
(@-2)
Illustrious Member

As RMM has pointed out, Scotch-Brite is a brand: tht brand has many levels of abrasive pads, from "non-scratch" dish sponge pads to skin removing steel etching pads.  Using the term Scotch-Brite is dangerous because most of us know Scotch-Brite as a sand paper / steel wool alternative that works great for cleaning rust off of curved metal surfaces and to polish metal to a lustrous sheen.

And to recommend using a "dish sponge" pad to clean the PEI is dangerous because most people will just grab their existing dish sponge and clean away, adding to their woes by now depositing grease and other normal household grime.

Clean with fresh paper towels, and only fresh paper towels.  Even lintless drying towels are a problem because most are washed or treated with fabric softeners and anti-stat agents that are as bad as fingerprints.

It is always wise to get more than one opinion... as for trusting Prusa? No way man....
Posted : 24/08/2019 11:17 pm
--
 -2
(@-2)
Illustrious Member

Here's some info on grit on the Scotch-Brite pads: The value inside the parentheses is directly from 3M.

7440 - Tan pad, called Heavy Duty Hand Pad - (120-150) grit.

7448 - Light Grey, called Ultra Fine Hand - (600-800) 800 grit.

6856 - Blue Scotch-Brite is considered to be about 1000 grit

This post was modified 1 year ago by --
It is always wise to get more than one opinion... as for trusting Prusa? No way man....
Posted : 24/08/2019 11:23 pm
cjameshuff
(@cjameshuff)
Active Member
Posted by: rmm200

The only - only - negative to the powder coated sheet is first layer adhesion.

Once you get above the first layer, if you have no adhesion problems, the surfaces have no effect on the rest of the model.

With enough use, if the powder coated is really clean - it is great for PLA. It is the only way to go for PETG.

I've been using the plain PEI sheet almost exclusively with PETG since I assembled my printer, a couple months now. It's a pain getting it clean enough for PLA when I switch back, while with PETG, apart from one specific print that needed a brim due to insufficient contact area, a simple wipe with Windex has so far reliably ensured the parts pop off when I flex the sheet after a print (or with reasonable amounts of force for pieces too small for that to work), and stay put during the print.

I did put a strip of kapton tape on the purge line area. For some reason I had several prints where it was very difficult to remove the purge line afterward, and the tape makes it a lot quicker and easier.

Posted : 25/08/2019 11:47 pm
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