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Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative  

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akerezy
(@akerezy)
Eminent Member
Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative

I've heard different things from different people. I just checked the manual - and sadly - it doesn't definitively and clearly explain, what values to use to move the nozzle closer to the build plate.  [insert crying emoticon here]

If I want my nozzle CLOSER to the build plate; how to I adjust my live Z?     (notice I am asking how to adjust the Z value to move the nozzle closer to the build plate)

EXAMPLE:  Let's say right now, or to start with my Z value is  -0.2  (negative zero point two); what number would move the nozzle closer to the build plate?

A)  Adjust it to say   -0.45   (make it a more negative number)

B) Adjust it to say   -0.18   (make it a more positive number)

P L E A S E ::::  Why is it sooooOOOOOooo hard, and so unclear?

Frustrated in Philly

Posted : 22/04/2020 3:27 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative

For the Mk3/Mk3s, more negative LOWERS the nozzle, bringing it closer to the bed. Moving from -0.2 to 0.45 would make the number more negative, effectively subtracting it from the 0 position and bringing the nozzle closer to the bed. Moving from 0.2 to 0.18 would raise it, increasing the distance between nozzle and bed. I usually move in increments of 0.02mm once it gets close.

For the Mk2, I believe it is reversed, which can add to confusion.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 22/04/2020 4:52 am
JustMe3D
(@justme3d)
Honorable Member
RE: Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative

Zero Z is not Ground Zero as in the nozzle crashing on the PEI sheet. Zero Z is the value of Z as set after the initial hardware setup per instructions, prior to the first Live Z adjustment, as walked through by the setup assistant. For an i3MK3s you'll want to go negative to go lower with the nozzle. In the metric system a value of -1 is two units lower than 1.  A value of -3 is five units lower than 2.

A value of -1 is ten times lower than -.1 and a hundred time lower than -.01

 

 

 

I try to give answers to the best of my ability, but I am not a 3D printing pro by any means, and anything you do you do at your own risk. BTW: I have no food for…

Posted : 22/04/2020 1:24 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member
RE: Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative

To be specific zero is the point at which the pinda probe detects the metal print bed.  As pinda probes vary this distance is usually anywhere up to 2mm above the bed.  As your nozzle is lower than the pinda probe what you are doing is lowering the whole extruder until the nozzle is at the perfect height (for that particular sheet/nozzle/filament combination).

So for example say your Pinda detects at 1.500mm above the bed and your nozzle is 0.500mm lower than the Pinda.  That would mean that your nozzle was 1.000mm above the bed.  If you change your Live Z value to be -0.500 then your nozzle will now be 0.500mm (half of a millimetre) above the bed.  If you change your Live Z value to be -1.000 then the nozzle will be touching the bed. 
Obviously you don't want that which is why the Live Z value is lowered gradually a bit at a time as it is printing one of the test squares/circles.  You lower it a bit at a  time until it squishes the plastic being extruded the perfect amount.  That combined with a clean bed will get you a perfect first layer that sticks fantastically.

Posted : 22/04/2020 1:35 pm
akerezy
(@akerezy)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative
Do you see my problem..............and I quote "Moving from -0.2 to 0.45 would make the number more negative".    THIS is exactly why users get confused.  Just answer my question A or B.
Moving from the negative number -0.2 to the positive number 0.45 is well......actually moving in a positive direction.
 
Posted by: @bobstro

For the Mk3/Mk3s, more negative LOWERS the nozzle, bringing it closer to the bed. Moving from -0.2 to 0.45 would make the number more negative, effectively subtracting it from the 0 position and bringing the nozzle closer to the bed. Moving from 0.2 to 0.18 would raise it, increasing the distance between nozzle and bed. I usually move in increments of 0.02mm once it gets close.

For the Mk2, I believe it is reversed, which can add to confusion.

 

Posted : 22/04/2020 1:49 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative
Posted by: @akerezy
Do you see my problem..............and I quote "Moving from -0.2 to 0.45 would make the number more negative".    THIS is exactly why users get confused.  Just answer my question A or B.
Moving from the negative number -0.2 to the positive number 0.45 is well......actually moving in a positive direction.
Wups, sorry about any confusion. I was using the values in the original post and meant is as "from negative 0.25 to (STILL NEGATIVE) 0.45". I assumed both were the negative values the original post referred to. English and precision don't always go together. But again, making the number more negative lowers the height.
 
Rather than get wrapped up in explanations, this is something very easily tested for oneself. Start printing the Prusa logo or any other print with a large-ish shape. Set your Live-Z to 0. Lower slowly by making Live-Z more negative until the gaps close. Continue lower and you'll see the surface get rough. It's a bit like moving your finger closer and further away from a candle. Simple once you try it.
My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 22/04/2020 3:18 pm
akerezy
(@akerezy)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Live-Z Adjustment Is it MORE or LESS Negative

Thanks for the clarification here.......

Posted : 22/04/2020 11:10 pm
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