First layer calibration and first print in PLA don't stick to the powder coated bed.
 

First layer calibration and first print in PLA don't stick to the powder coated bed.  

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rayrees
(@rayrees)
Active Member

New user here. I finished up the assembly and attempted to run through calibration. I followed all of the written and video instructions for cleaning the bed and setting up the first layer thickness. The supplied PLA does not stick to that textured PC sheet without glue stick. I cleaned all of the suggested ways and could not get a successful first layer for anything. I engineer adhesive bond processes and procedures as a part of my job so I understand the chemicals and processes better than most. With a bunch of reading this seems to be a common complaint. I do have a smooth sheet and have as yet to try that. With a bit of the glue stick I got a beautiful Benchy boat print but glue was the only way. So what is the secret to PLA first layer adhesion? Cleaning is not the suggestion I'm looking for. I have that one covered. I'm guessing a bit more heat on the bed couldn't hurt. Or perhaps that textured sheet is not the best choice for PLA.

Regardless from the number of problems I see with it there is something lacking with the set up instructions or the PC textured plate is defective.

Any advice is appreciated.

Best Answer by Robert-mm200:

As a new user - switch to the smooth sheet for PLA.

Leave the textured sheet until you have more experience.

Note: if you use the smooth sheet for PETG or any of the other high temp filaments - you are likely to ruin your sheet. They stick too well.

And please don't use a glue stick for PLA or PETG. It is not needed - and makes a real mess.

Posted : 10/01/2020 5:31 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member

As a new user - switch to the smooth sheet for PLA.

Leave the textured sheet until you have more experience.

Note: if you use the smooth sheet for PETG or any of the other high temp filaments - you are likely to ruin your sheet. They stick too well.

And please don't use a glue stick for PLA or PETG. It is not needed - and makes a real mess.

Posted : 10/01/2020 8:35 pm
Mike
(@mike242)
Active Member

I finished my assembly yesterday and have/had the same problem with the PC sheet. 

Yesterday I found a thread - but can't find it now - the statements were

* in general the PC sheet seems not to be the best choice for PLA

* the first layer has to be calibrated lower than expected for the PC sheet. When the 3D print handbook says "that's too low bro" it's right for the pc sheet. The layer has to be smashed into the textured surface to get acceptable adhesion. 

* IPA does not get rid of all kinds of contaminations. Even if the Handbook and Prusa videos say dont clean with water, some say using a wet towel with dish soap can help. Even if you did all sorts of cleaning maybe this point might help the next guy who reads this.

Yesterday my first print was the prusa batch and it warped.

Actually I have 2,5 hour PLA print running without warping *fingers crossed*.

PLA will not stick as good as on the smooth sheet, but after the first try and error I got a little success with these.

 

Posted : 10/01/2020 8:58 pm
rayrees
(@rayrees)
Active Member

@robert-rmm200

Why would the machine be supplied with PLA and only a PC textured sheet if they really don't work together? And a glue stick? It's an awesome machine and the kit quality is out of this world.  Things don't add up and it seems to be a very common issue. I only have the smooth sheet because I figured it's an available option I might need. The kit should have all the things that work together and the instructions required to get a print with what is supplied. Seems like a huge oversight on an otherwise amazingly executed product.

Posted : 10/01/2020 9:11 pm
Mike
(@mike242)
Active Member

I mostly agree with your arguments.

Prusa shippes glue sticks maybe to avoid big frustration as last help or because they always did it so as now. 

I had bigger expectations to PC sheet as well but nearly every review video I watched the smooth sheet were used due to pc sheets were not available. 

The smooth sheet has great adhesion, so the next evolution is expected to be as good as the old one right? 

But to be honest, prints don't have to stick the same way they do on the smooth sheet, they have to stick just good enough to don't warp. And this should be possible because others got it work. 

3d printing is a hobby and with every hobby you have to proceed a learning curve with every single maschine.

That challenges me the same way than to assemble the kit by myself. 

 

Posted : 10/01/2020 10:54 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member
Posted by: @rayrees

@robert-rmm200

Why would the machine be supplied with PLA and only a PC textured sheet if they really don't work together? And a glue stick? It's an awesome machine and the kit quality is out of this world.  Things don't add up and it seems to be a very common issue. I only have the smooth sheet because I figured it's an available option I might need. The kit should have all the things that work together and the instructions required to get a print with what is supplied. Seems like a huge oversight on an otherwise amazingly executed product.

When you order your kit, you get to choose which sheet it comes with.

True, I would like to see the smooth sheet recommended for beginners with PLA - but you did have a choice.

PC sheet - good for PETG and high temp filaments. Glue stick - good for ABS and similar.

Prusa can't read your mind for what you want to do, so they try to cover all the bases.

Posted : 10/01/2020 11:04 pm
rayrees
(@rayrees)
Active Member

No I didn't I only had a choice to order the smooth sheet as well. I just popped the smooth one on and it works great. The instructions are severely lacking in this area. Set up includes first layer calibration.  Impossible with PLA on the textured sheet. If it's the smooth sheet required for PLA at the least it should be stated that that is required. I ordered my machine through a Canadian dealer. No this or that options were available. A straight easy to find answer should be up front and in your face about this. Somebody ad this FAQ please.

Posted : 11/01/2020 12:21 am
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member

At the top of this page, click EShop.

Then select the MK3S kit.

Once you get to that page, you have a series of dropdowns for customizing your purchase.

One of them is titled Spring Steel Plate.

The dropdown there is Smooth - or Textured (Powder coated).

I got mine with just the powder coated sheet. First layer calibration went fine. The smooth sheet is not required.

Posted : 11/01/2020 1:08 am
rayrees
(@rayrees)
Active Member

@robert-rmm200

Read the post it was ordered from a Canadian dealer. NO option A or option B was available. Yours worked but a whole bunch of others are having trouble getting the PLA to stick. I follow the same instructions with the smooth and its all fine. With the number of results found on this exact topic on this forum and others there is a likely problem. If yours worked so well then those of us having problems have defective PC sheets or bad supplied PLA. But The PLA works fine on the smooth sheet. So likely too slippery of a PC sheet. 

Posted : 11/01/2020 1:23 am
Mike
(@mike242)
Active Member

defective sheets, that's the diagnosis on day one after assembly?

My first prints didn't stick as well.

Here my result of a 2+ hour print with PLA on the pc sheet:

There was not a big surface to stick on.

Think I got my defective sheet "repaired" with a diffent setting and a paper towel.

 

 

Posted : 11/01/2020 4:30 pm
alvaro
(@alvaro)
Eminent Member

Adjusting your settings to have a raft or a brim is the correct countermeasure since your part it thin.  The part does not stick because it has too little surface area on the base layer.

One of the best features of this printer is the spring steel pei coated sheet, but it will peel right off if that first layer does not  have enough surface area to grip the sheet. 

Try a brim also if your part is flatter.

 

Posted : 12/01/2020 9:29 am
Thinkdifferent
(@thinkdifferent)
New Member

I also started my first printing attempts yesterday (Benchy) - 2 times with warping, but without adhesion. All prints got off the bed. First layer calibration was done twice...

To summarize the posts:
- The PC sheet is best suited for strongly adhering filaments such as PETG or TPU / flex filament; also for higher temperatures such as ABS.
- Contrary to the instructions in the manual, the "first layer" of the PC sheet should be flattened more in order to achieve better adhesion
- In addition, you should use a brim on the PC sheet for small objects
- The "normal" (= smooth) sheet is more suitable for PLA
- Only IPA alone is not suitable for cleaning - additional dishwashing detergent is useful

Correct??? Better advices???

(BTW: the first few layers were definitely a lot nicer than with my Lulzbot Mini ...)

 

Posted : 14/01/2020 5:15 pm
Robert-mm200
(@robert-rmm200)
Noble Member

Looks good to me. Although my calibration squares are the same for PLA and PETG. Smooth continuous sheet in both cases. Not smeared.

Posted : 14/01/2020 5:47 pm
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