clicking noise, filament stuck  

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encity5
(@encity5)
Active Member

I just built the mk3s kit. passed the initial setup checks, and printed the prusa logo succesfully.

tried to print the benchy, and maybe 20 minutes in, it starts making a clicking noise and noticed that filament wasn't really coming out. stopped print and began troubleshooting. Extruder isnt/cant push the filament down.

Attempted the "cold pull" but after raising the hotend to 260, disabling stepper moters, opening idler doors, turning off filament sensor/auto filament, i still cant physically push the filament down to get it to ooze out. I also stuck the accupuncture needle in from the bottom a bit as per this help: https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/clogged-hotend_2008  

Im using the supplied PLA filament that came with the printer.
If i open the idler door, i see the filament going from the top to the bottom tube, though a bit "squished with bite marks"

What should i be looking at to figure out what the issue could be and what should i be trying?

thanks. i was hoping to have less issues coming from an anet a8 T_T

Posted : 22/06/2020 2:29 pm
encity5
(@encity5)
Active Member

Talking to support tried a few things.

raised the temp to 285, and attempted to push or pull the filament - would not budge.

replaced the PTFE tube - original tube looked like it had no issues, tried loading filament, no extrusion, filament stuck again.

now im being told that ill have to dissemble and go look at the heatbreak and clear the clog.... (which prusa helps advises against doing it alone if inexperienced)

 

Quite disappointing as i decided to ugprade to the prusa to worry less about fixing the printer. but this happens on my 2nd print. my luck.

Is there a clear guide out there that can help assist me in taking this apart to the heatbreak look for any clogs and how to clean? thanks.

 

Posted : 23/06/2020 8:04 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member

How did you try pushing & pulling the filament? I had luck moving a bad clog by heating to 285C, removing the nozzle and using a long (15cm/6in) 1.5mm brass rod to push up slowly from below (using pliers) and allowing it to heat up and dislodge the stuck filament. 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 24/06/2020 2:48 am
encity5
(@encity5)
Active Member

@bobstro

I tried pushing and pulling by heating the nozzle to 285, then grabbing it from the top. I also tried using pliers and pulling it through the extruder idler door.

I might try what you suggested. So the steps you did were: heat to 285, then unscrew the nozzle completely (without burning yourself), then sticking a 1.5mm brass rod up through the heaterblock slowly? essentially letting the brass rod heat up then melt/dislodge the clog?

Just trying to be extra clear as im still relatively new to all this, and havent found people around me who are experienced.

 

Posted : 24/06/2020 2:46 pm
kishkov
(@kishkov)
New Member
Posted by: @encity5

I just built the mk3s kit. passed the initial setup checks, and printed the prusa logo succesfully.

tried to print the benchy, and maybe 20 minutes in, it starts making a clicking noise and noticed that filament wasn't really coming out. stopped print and began troubleshooting. Extruder isnt/cant push the filament down.

Attempted the "cold pull" but after raising the hotend to 260, disabling stepper moters, opening idler doors, turning off filament sensor/auto filament, i still cant physically push the filament down to get it to ooze out. I also stuck the accupuncture needle in from the bottom a bit as per this help: https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/clogged-hotend_2008  

Im using the supplied PLA filament that came with the printer.
If i open the idler door, i see the filament going from the top to the bottom tube, though a bit "squished with bite marks"

What should i be looking at to figure out what the issue could be and what should i be trying?

thanks. i was hoping to have less issues coming from an anet a8 T_T

I hope you manage to get it unclogged.

In order to prevent this issue from happening again you apparently have to change the heatbreak in the e3d v6 hotend.
The heatbreak in the hotend is specifically made for the prusa i3mk3s by e3d and inside the bore hole starts with a 2.2mm diameter and further down the hole it gets narrower to 2mm. The ORIGINAL e3d v6 heatbreak has a bore hole of 2mm straight through.

Apparently the wider diameter in the upper part of the heatbreak is supposed to help with the MultiMaterial upgrade kit by making it easier to change filament.

But an unforseen sideeffect seems to be that now when the weather gets warmer outside and the ambient temperature in most peoples homes rises it causes just enough heat to creep up the heatbreak, which in turn softens the plastic(PLA) which expands to fill the 2.2mm diameter in the heatbreak which makes the printer unable to push the filaments down the narrower part of the heatbreak. or in my case.. it under extrudes and only a little bit comes through.
Models that needs a lot of retraction seems to jam faster besause the retraction motion keeps pulling and pushing the mushy PLA up and down the heatbreak.

The extruder motor starts skipping steps( the clicking noise ) because it cant push the filament down, and gets warmer because of the added load, which in turn exacerbates the heat problem.

I did a lot of research to find out about this and everyone who have changed their heatbreaks to one with a 2mm hole straight through seems to get rid of the problem.
I am about to do the same change now and will write here if it finally makes my i3mk3s usable again.

Finally I have to add that I purchased my pre-assembled i3mk3s about 6 months ago and its been working flawlessly until just a couple of weeks ago when it started getting really hot outside.

Cheers!

Posted : 24/06/2020 7:11 pm
encity5
(@encity5)
Active Member

@kishkov

thanks! havent managed to fix it yet, getting over being frustrated with it first, and waiting for 7mm socket to come in.

Do you have a link to the heatbreak you purchased? Obviously ill try to get this fixed first. but thats some good knowledge to know. 

Posted : 25/06/2020 2:33 am
peter.m26
(@peter-m26)
Honorable Member

I have the mk3(no S) and had the same problem.

I change the heatbrake ,

Added a fan on top of the extruder motor(see thingiverse for stl),

If printer is in a enclosure add cooling fan to enclosure, and leave door open with pla.

-Other things i saw on forums, but do not now if it helps, use a Silicone Socks and it is gone, you could try this!!!!!!!!  (less work).

 

Posted : 25/06/2020 6:53 am
peter.m26
(@peter-m26)
Honorable Member

Search forum for more info.

More heat could also be a option with some filaments, in a movie on the forum they say that.(3D Printing Nerd).

 

After my changes, my printer works very good, this for a longer time.

This post was modified 4 months ago by peter.m26
Posted : 25/06/2020 6:55 am
kishkov
(@kishkov)
New Member

@encity5

I purchased one called "Turmberg3d Titanium hotend" from amazon.
I would have ordered from e3d directly if shipping wasnt so expensive/takes longer to reach germany.

So I took the hotend apart and replaced the heatbreak and the ptfe tube for good measure and now my printer is running fine again.

Posted : 28/06/2020 9:16 pm
kishkov
(@kishkov)
New Member

Update:

Printer is not fine... the issue persists.... *pulls hair*

Posted : 29/06/2020 9:56 pm
encity5
(@encity5)
Active Member

@kishkov

same issue? another clog? 🙁

Posted : 29/06/2020 10:29 pm
encity5
(@encity5)
Active Member

some updates:

tried the brass rod, heated nozzle, took it off, and slowly stuck a 1.5mm brass rod up until i hit the clog, was able to actually push a significant amount of clogged filament out and up through the ptfe tube. 

Put it back together and tried again, but filament still hit something and got stuck. 

Ended up ordering another heatbreak, took the hot end apart again, and replaced the heatbreak, new thermal paste, etc. 
At this point, i was able to see where filament clogged up, looked like the top of the heatbreak, cleaned it out, but didnt bother with it since i had already bought a new heatbreak with a straight hole through it.

Heated up and tried to load filament...and got the clicking noise again and no extrusion? was nearly lost at this point.
Heated to 285, and just forced filament through with my hand, which finnaly, i saw lots of filament oozing out.
Proceeded to try a cold pull, successfully. re-calibrated, and finnaly was able to print a benchy.

7 hours into another print which seems to be holding up well... hoping i am able to start enjoying this printer and put all my fusion 360 practice into use...

At the very least, ive gained experience how to take this apart and put it together, something which isnt as strenuous as i initially thought.

Posted : 01/07/2020 6:07 am
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @encity5

[...] At the very least, ive gained experience how to take this apart and put it together, something which isnt as strenuous as i initially thought.

I think you'll find most big scary things are like that. For a few days, I was reluctant to swap filament. Figured out cold pulls and got over that. Was nervous about nozzle swaps until I got the right tools and now swap daily. I finally had a hotend problem -- stripped the threads on my heater block -- and spent an afternoon tearing the extruder apart and have now mastered it.

All this experience on my Prusa prepared me well for my first venture with a non-Prusa printer. My Artillery Sidewinder X1 had a thermistor cable break that required extensive teardown and cable splicing as I waited for the "priority" replacement part that took 2 months. Various hotend problems cost me another couple of days of teardowns to the point that I'm ready to toss the stock extruder and hotend and drop-in replacements.

As you get comfortable with each mechanism, the printers are a lot less scary and your horizons open up. Good job on the fix and have fun with it!

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 01/07/2020 6:12 am
encity5 liked
domwhite
(@domwhite)
Active Member

I have been having similar issues probably also down to the tapering bore. I can print fine except when the following combine:

1. Warm environment

2. Prusament PLA

3. Retraction heavy print areas.

I went back to just printing a single problem part from the sd card, namely the tree frog, which has quite a lot of quick retractions when it gets to the eyes. This printed fine with generic PLA but failed all the time with Prusament Vanilla White.

I was getting clicking and major under-extrusion, but really no blockage. After each failure I could successfully pull out the filament and just see a slight chewing in the area it got stuck.

I have improved my situation by adding a sock on the heater block and increasing the extruder idler tension. Originally I had the sprung bolt flush with the outer part (when filament was loaded) as per instructed. I then added one extra full turn to compress it up more.

See last frog on the right which finally came out whole.

As I have currently no intention of upgrading to MMU, I would like to modify my heatbreak to the constant width one, which I have ordered from e3d, but I am unsure which hotend ptfe tube I should be using. Will it work with the current mk3s ones, or do I have to use the older version (which has different chamfers and is shorter I think).

Anyway glad I saw this thread has some really useful info in for me

Posted : 03/07/2020 5:12 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
Posted by: @domwhite

[...] As I have currently no intention of upgrading to MMU, I would like to modify my heatbreak to the constant width one, which I have ordered from e3d, but I am unsure which hotend ptfe tube I should be using. Will it work with the current mk3s ones, or do I have to use the older version (which has different chamfers and is shorter I think).

I dropped in the E3D titanium heatbreak and nickel-plated copper heater block with no other changes other than replacement of broken thermistor and heater cartridges. You don't need to modify any part geometry.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan...
Posted : 03/07/2020 7:44 pm
domwhite
(@domwhite)
Active Member
Posted by: @bobstro
Posted by: @domwhite

[...] As I have currently no intention of upgrading to MMU, I would like to modify my heatbreak to the constant width one, which I have ordered from e3d, but I am unsure which hotend ptfe tube I should be using. Will it work with the current mk3s ones, or do I have to use the older version (which has different chamfers and is shorter I think).

I dropped in the E3D titanium heatbreak and nickel-plated copper heater block with no other changes other than replacement of broken thermistor and heater cartridges. You don't need to modify any part geometry.

Thanks, thats good to hear. Hopefully be printing reliably with Prusament very soon

Posted : 03/07/2020 10:02 pm
kyle.a3
(@kyle-a3)
Active Member

I was getting the clicking noise on my printer, turns out the spring loaded screw that holds the extruder door closed was not tight enough. From what i read on the forums here is that you should tighten the screw while filament is not loaded so that the head of the screw is flush with the extruder body. Since then i do hear clicking but a lot less frequently. my prints went from having the first layer have holes where the filament should have been, to shiny like glass 🙂 

This post was modified 4 months ago by kyle.a3
Posted : 05/07/2020 5:39 am
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