Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed
 
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assaf.w3
(@assaf-w3)
Active Member
Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

Hey Guys

Trying to cope with a repeated malfunctioning print.

No problems and special issues whatsoever when printing at 30% and 40% infill,
however facing a tremendous problems when trying to print at 100% infill.
For some reason the material is getting twisted and is detaching from the hot bed
inspite the fact that i am using a glue prior the printing process.

Please refer to the attached photos.

Material is ABS

any Idea....

Thanks

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:42 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

What size are the discs?

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 08/03/2018 3:06 am
AJS
 AJS
(@ajs)
Noble Member
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

ABS is notorious for shrinking.

Shrinking is exacerbated when:
1) You use 100% infill. It has no where to shrink to, so the whole thing shrinks.
2) You are not in an enclosure. The upper layers cool too fast, and shrink, pulling up from the bed.

I would not use glue. Very clean PEI should adhere well.
Don't do 100% infill.
Put a cardboard box over the printer to prevent drafts.
Add "brim" to the print to help keep the edges down.

Good luck.

Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss. If you solve your problem, please post the solution…

Posted : 08/03/2018 3:08 am
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

Welcome to ABS printing. :).
Less material being used, less internal stress is applied. You got already a very good suggestions how to handle with it. Heat and Brim are your best friends. There is no way to avoid it. This are the ABS material characteristics.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram

Posted : 08/03/2018 8:31 pm
assaf.w3
(@assaf-w3)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

Hi Joan

Thanks for reverting

The discs size is 42MM X 50MM
The discs thickness is 5.7 MM

Posted : 08/03/2018 9:25 pm
assaf.w3
(@assaf-w3)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed


ABS is notorious for shrinking.

Shrinking is exacerbated when:
1) You use 100% infill. It has no where to shrink to, so the whole thing shrinks.
2) You are not in an enclosure. The upper layers cool too fast, and shrink, pulling up from the bed.

I would not use glue. Very clean PEI should adhere well.
Don't do 100% infill.
Put a cardboard box over the printer to prevent drafts.
Add "brim" to the print to help keep the edges down.

Good luck.

Dear Aaron
Thanks for reverting and for your detailed answer
I am not sure that i followed you regarding the cardboard box.
Are you literally telling me to put a cardboard box over the printer during the printing process?
Will appreciate your explanation as to how dose it preventing the drafts

Posted : 08/03/2018 9:41 pm
assaf.w3
(@assaf-w3)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed


Welcome to ABS printing. :).
Less material being used, less internal stress is applied. You got already a very good suggestions how to handle with it. Heat and Brim are your best friends. There is no way to avoid it. This are the ABS material characteristics.

Hi Nikolai

Thanks for your reply
Must confess that i still have to catch up quit a lot
as far as material characteristics for all types of material being used
within 3D printing

Hope to catch up the missing information A.S.A.P

Thanks Again

Posted : 08/03/2018 10:02 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

Hi iAssaf

I tried this with PLA,

wasn't sure exactly what size, guessed 30mm, then did 42mm round, 50mm round and 42 x 50mm oval...

all came out without lifting, in PLA... is there a reason why you need ABS?

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 09/03/2018 1:29 am
AJS
 AJS
(@ajs)
Noble Member
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed



ABS is notorious for shrinking.

Shrinking is exacerbated when:
1) You use 100% infill. It has no where to shrink to, so the whole thing shrinks.
2) You are not in an enclosure. The upper layers cool too fast, and shrink, pulling up from the bed.

I would not use glue. Very clean PEI should adhere well.
Don't do 100% infill.
Put a cardboard box over the printer to prevent drafts.
Add "brim" to the print to help keep the edges down.

Good luck.

Dear Aaron
Thanks for reverting and for your detailed answer
I am not sure that i followed you regarding the cardboard box.
Are you literally telling me to put a cardboard box over the printer during the printing process?
Will appreciate your explanation as to how dose it preventing the drafts

assay.w3;
The issue is that ABS shrinks when it cools down. If you can keep the whole print warm through out the whole print, it will not shrink as much, and your print will turn out better. If there is a cold draft (wind), it will cause the print to suddenly cool and shrink, and thus pop off the bed. To prevent such cooling and drafts, people build enclosures around their printers. A simple cardboard box is not very insulated, but will keep the heat in, and prevent a draft.

If you must use ABS, you can build an enclosure, increase bed temperature, add brim, and reduce infill percent.

If you can use PLA, you should not have a problem, as Joan so nicely proved. PLA is much better behaved than ABS.

(Joan - you are a rock star.)

Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage or loss. If you solve your problem, please post the solution…

Posted : 09/03/2018 3:17 am
assaf.w3
(@assaf-w3)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

Dear Freinds

I have implemented your suggestions and for now it looks that everything is A.O.K
Used PLA insted ABS and the print came out just good.

Joan
No special reason for using ABS
The print is a prototype for a Talken that should be integrated into buses self payment machines
Somehow i got the impression that ABS is much more rigid than PLA, but as its just a prototype, its not realy matter

Thank you all for your great help and cooperation

Posted : 09/03/2018 11:10 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

Hi Assaf,

I believe PLA is harder and more rigid than ABS (as well as easier to print... but PLA is more brittle

PETG might be a better option, as it is less likely to distort if left in sunlight...

if the token is left on a window ledge, or somewhere else hot, the PLA could get hot enough to lose it's shape

PETG also prints easier than ABS

I haven't played with other filaments
except TPU, which will be much more flexible,,,

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 09/03/2018 11:34 pm
DG
 DG
(@dg-2)
Active Member
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

The plastic type you use depends on what you want to do with that part.

PLA is good because it is a green plastic, meaning it has a very low content of dangerous chemicals and is biodegradable. But it is also very bad for structural parts, because it starts to melt at around 60degC. Use this for toys or concept prototypes.

PETG is the same stuff that those plastic bottles for various drinks are made of. It is hard up until 80degC, thus it can be used for many structural parts. The downside is that it tends to stick too much on the bed surface, especially on borosilicate glass. It doesn't melt when exposed to acetone, which is why Prusa makes it's parts from this.

ABS is the engineering plastic, good for up to 100degC, but pretty toxic, especially when compared to PLA. It is very fussy when it comes to ambient temperature and air currents. Keep the bed temperature at least 90degC (100 is the max) and use a brim or a large skirt to tackle the air currents. Also don't print it in a cold room. Parts made out of this will last a pretty good time.

Posted : 11/03/2018 5:57 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
Re: Material is rising and detaching from the hot bed

I wouldn't call PLA green and ABS toxic.
Both are still plastic which requires resources to produce.
Both can be reused.
Both are emitting unhealthy particles during printing.
ABS only emits toxic fumes if you burn it, which (should) is not happening during printing process.

But I agree with you that for different tasks, there are different plastic types. You can't use one plastic for everything.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram

Posted : 11/03/2018 6:32 pm
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