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Vincent
(@vincent)
Eminent Member
Observations and Speculations

I watched the 3D Printing Nerd coverage of the Prusa XL on YouTube and noticed something.  The XL uses three MK3S+ 240W Delta PSUs which are mounted on the back of the printer.  I attached a screenshot.  All that power seems to be needed to run all five tool changers.  I wonder how many power supplies will be needed to run just one toolhead?

Then began to think about the future MK4.  I think that printer will share some of the same parts as the XL.  I speculate that the printer will use anywhere 4 to 9 of the independent heat zones that are featured on the XL, which has 16.  This also gives us an idea about the possible dimensions of the MK4.  Now whether it will have an i3 Frame or CoreXY layout will depend on the cost of linear rails.  They are one of the most expensive components.

Streamlining and minimizing the parts used among the product line seems logical these days due to all of the shortages around the world.

The XL will have issues at the launch.  But they will be remedied over time.  We still don't know what accessories will be available beside the draft shield and full enclosure.  Hopefully they wow us in the coming months.

Posted : 20/11/2021 8:57 pm
NathanWms
(@nathanwms)
Eminent Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

I agree that the MK4 will likely use 9 heatbed segments with a build volume of around 27x27x27cm. I bet the MK4 will also by corexy and be close to what we saw in the Prusa Automated Farm System. 

Posted : 22/11/2021 4:46 am
Yveske
(@yveske)
Estimable Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

 

Posted by: @vincent

I watched the 3D Printing Nerd coverage of the Prusa XL on YouTube and noticed something.  The XL uses three MK3S+ 240W Delta PSUs which are mounted on the back of the printer.  I attached a screenshot.  All that power seems to be needed to run all five tool changers.  I wonder how many power supplies will be needed to run just one toolhead?

I guess some power is also needed for all heatbeds...

Having problems with bed adhesion every morning......
Posted : 22/11/2021 8:39 am
3DALHEMIJA
(@3dalhemija)
Estimable Member
RE: Observations and Speculations
Posted by: @nathanwms

I agree that the MK4 will likely use 9 heatbed segments with a build volume of around 27x27x27cm. I bet the MK4 will also by corexy and be close to what we saw in the Prusa Automated Farm System. 

Technology of XL is outstanding, and standardization is inevitable future of Prusa. But its has drawback in terms of upgradeability for existing printers (especially MK3). Build volume of 27cm3 seems logic, but along implementing CoreXY for MK4 would mean - whole new printer... Imagine how much would MK4 upgrade kit cost for : new modular heatbed, "Nextruder", new frame etc.

Posted : 22/11/2021 10:55 am
Vincent
(@vincent)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

Currently there is an expectation of a MK3S+ -> MK4 upgrade kit release in the future.  I see so many comments regarding this sentiment, but it's wishful thinking.  I highly doubt an upgrade kit will exist without significant costs and modifications to the current design.  Prices on the MK3S+ will come down, reflecting what happened to the MK2.  Prusa will continue to support MK3 variants for many years, but the MK4 will be a very different printer.  Will Prusa be able to hit the $800 price point on the MK4?  Probably not.  Especially with shortages and inflation affecting the world economy.  Hopefully they will be able to manage a $1000 price point, but again, that's just wishful thinking.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Vincent
Posted : 22/11/2021 4:02 pm
MysDawg
(@mysdawg)
Estimable Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

I agree. I would like to see an update of the entire printer.

Posted : 22/11/2021 4:26 pm
stevQ
(@stevq)
Eminent Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

I think the best that someone willing to upgrade an MK3 can expect, is the Nextruder being adapted to MK3. The heated bed would mean new frame parts, the auto leveling by load cell would mean that the PINDA probe output is changed from digital to analog which I am not sure is possible on the current electronics. Perhaps new electronics and display could be possible, depending on if it mechanically matches in the MK3 current design.

...
Posted : 22/11/2021 4:39 pm
Vincent
(@vincent)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Observations and Speculations

All the parts you just mentioned are based off the 32-bit board.  The current Einsy RAMBo (MK3S/+) sells for $119 and is an 8-bit board.  The 32-bit board will cost $100 at a minimum.   Including all the other parts, you are looking at a $400 kit to upgrade a $800 printer.  Now if the MK4 is $1200+, maybe its worth upgrading the MK3.  Otherwise it's not economically sound.  I'm sure we will get a better idea of what the MK4 will be like when the XL actually comes out.  We will get a BOM and spare parts pricing.

Posted : 22/11/2021 5:04 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

How often does Prusa release new printer? Every 3-4 years (not counting "upgrades")? Existing Prusa printers are shipped with delays depending on config you choose (can be 2 or 10 weeks). XL was just introduced with hope it will be delivered in Q2/Q4 next year, so we can imagine staff is working hard on it. Not to mention, there are dark clouds above parts supply chain.
In short, "MK4" is pure fiction right now and is probably not even on Prusa's papers yet. Everyone who needs "better" printer (than current Prusa) at reasonable price, should look at competition. Everything else is just wishful thinking.

Just sharing my thoughts

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 22/11/2021 5:30 pm
Walter Witt
(@walter-witt)
Active Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

So, is no one is considering the possibility that Prusa's next flagship won't be a MK4, but an i4 MK1? That way they can justify a major overhaul with no "upgrade path" because it's an entirely different printer.

That's what I think might make sense at least.

Posted : 23/11/2021 12:19 pm
Siff
 Siff
(@siff)
Active Member
RE:

It's called a "Prusa i3 MK3"; they wouldn't call a smaller CoreXY a MK4 because that naming nomenclature is for the i3 product line.

I can see a MK4 that implements some of the CoreXY features, like the 32-bit board and the easily swappable Nextruder with break-out boards. However, I think they will retain the current bed because they already stated that increasing the bed size causes too many print issues (not to mention the added weight that no doubt accompanies a 9x9 grid bed array).

Release a MK4 with the 32-bit board and Nextruder with 20:1 gearing, easy flexable printing, and automatic first-layer calibration and it is easy to see many people investing at the $400 upgrade kit, as well as a printer that can be sold at nearly the same cost as the MK3S to maintain that market segment. In fact, it probably works even better with a MMU2S then the MK3S, since the nozzle can sense exactly when the filament has reached it.

The smaller CoreXY "Non-XL" (as suggested earlier, Prusa i4 MK1 makes a LOT of sense here to be consistent and really establish this as a new product generation, not just an upgrade to the i3 series) will likely cost close to the same as the XL since much of the technology and electronics are still needed along with much of the material, with the main benefit being a smaller footprint to accommodate print farm and space limited applications at the loss of print volume and amount of tools (likely maxing at 3 toolheads instead of 5).

This post was modified 2 months ago by Siff
Posted : 07/12/2021 9:07 pm
Texy
 Texy
(@texy)
Reputable Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

Back on track with the thread title and XL, does anyone know or have a feeling on how the XL will deal with purge - one assumes a purge block is not needed, but surely a line is. How  will it deal with multiple head changes during a print - even though the filament is not changing in each head, every time it is used, it'll need a quick squirt of filament before printing, and that excess needs to be purged.

Thoughts, or is there some video out there ?

Texy

Posted : 13/12/2021 9:00 pm
Nealz
(@nealz)
Eminent Member
RE: Observations and Speculations

Is it possible the XL will have ability to add a second active carriage so it could print like/be an Idex?

This would allow duplicate printing and mirrored printing. I know alignment is a big thing for Idex. Would the new tool alignment be able to handle Idex alignment ? 

 

Posted : 15/12/2021 9:17 am
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