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Having all sorts of issues!  

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PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Having all sorts of issues!

Hi,

I've been having all sorts of issues recently, i decided to upgrade to a Bondtech extruder, but I still have issues,

This is the latest print on the bed

 

And this is what the underside looked like.

I think my first layer is good, but maybe not.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Posted : 14/11/2021 9:44 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Maybe you have other extruder/hotend related problem, but your first layer is not good at all. You need to decrease Z-offset at first layer calibration. First layer rectangle should look like a solid rectangle layer.

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 14/11/2021 9:52 pm
languer liked
karl-herbert
(@karl-herbert)
Illustrious Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Did you adjust the esteps (415) for the Bondtech extruder in the slicer software?

Here some tips for firstlayer adjustment: https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-assembly-and-first-prints-troubleshooting/life-adjust-z-my-way/

wbr,

Karl

Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen....
Posted : 14/11/2021 10:09 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

These are mine, i didnt think they looked bad.

Posted : 14/11/2021 10:12 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

I did change the steps. I'll read the post, thanks

Posted : 14/11/2021 10:13 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Pictures look good but always hard to tell. Any more details: material, temp? It's also best to export the project as a 3mf file, then zip it and upload it here. This way, we can check all your settings to see if anything looks suspicious. It's key to ZIP the file, or the forum software will not accept it.

Posted : 14/11/2021 11:16 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Ok so I think my issus is that my bed is seriously not level!

Look at this test print. I need to look into how to sort that first, any pointers are appreciated!

Paul

 

 

Posted : 16/11/2021 1:02 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

No bed is perfectly flat, and relative small deviations (as seen on your photo) should be compensated by auto bed leveling.
What worries me is, that layer on your photo isn't uniformly covered -I mean there, where area is covered. Because photo is quite small, it's hard to say what's going on. But at first sight I would think it's extrusion issue.. or wet filament.

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 16/11/2021 3:30 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Now i'm really confused. The right-hand side is almost touching the PEI surface, whereas there is a thick covering on the left. How is that considered level.

If it should be compensated by auto bed levelling why isn't this showing more even across the sheet? That's a 75mm square sheet, supposed to be 0.2mm thick.

The filament is kept in a dry box, with indicator silica gel, and was dried in the oven a couple of weeks ago.

Here's a higher-res version of the photo, from this I think the correct height is 1.810.

Posted : 16/11/2021 3:45 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Auto bed leveling (SuperPINDA) should compensate sheet deviations up to about 1mm at least(!). So, single layer (0.2mm thick) shouldn't be a problem. All that by assuming, that you did first layer calibration successfully in first place.
My guess (looking at your hi-res photo) is, your Z-offset is too low (look at skirt.. it's too flat/squished).

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 16/11/2021 3:56 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

That test was me doing the Live Z bed levelling as suggested above.

Posted : 16/11/2021 4:01 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member
RE:

Did you check that SuperPINDA has correct distance to print sheet and that it's fixed (can't move)? Distance between bottom of SuperPINDA and print sheet (when nozzle tip just touches the bed) should be about 1.4-1.5mm.
Sorry if I'm saying obvious things, but I just wish to exclude "usual suspects" one after another.

PS: also check that SuperPINDA is actually working (red LED light should go off as SuperPINDA comes close to print sheet)

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 16/11/2021 4:09 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

So its securely screwed in, probably not as high as that, but you read different heights everywhere! Prusa say put a credit card under it, but thats well less than 1mm thick.

I'll check later & will report back.

thanks

Posted : 16/11/2021 4:17 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Anything stuck under the sheet? I've seen issues in the past caused by a tiny speck of filament directly on the heated bed, under the steel sheet.

Posted : 16/11/2021 4:32 pm
BogdanH
(@bogdanh)
Honorable Member
RE:

 

Posted by: @paulb

...probably not as high as that, but you read different heights everywhere! Prusa say put a credit card under it, but thats well less than 1mm thick.

If SuperPINDA has less than 1mm distance and depending on bed flatness, it can happen you won't be able to make first layer calibration at all. In that case, during first layer calibration (at attempt to change Z-offset), nozzle will "float" up and down almost randomly -for example, you decrease Z-offset, but at certain point nozzle goes up.
Btw. that can also happen if SuperPINDA height is correct, but Z-axis isn't perfectly perpendicular to bed. To be more precise, in that case height of SuperPINDA just can't be correct, because it's distance will depend on where on bed you measure.

And my personal opinion... I can read here many times, how one should use some "better" process for first layer calibration (bigger square, more squares, etc.). Mostly crap, in my opinion.
I only use built in first layer calibrations (yes, that tiny square). Because it's fast and reliable. Point being, if I manage to get good first layer on that small square (and I do), then I also have the same (good) first layer on whole bed -that's why we have SuperPINDA.
I had some troubles when I assembled Mini, because Z-axis wasn't perfectly perpendicular to bed. Despite that, I get good first layer in two (or max three) attempts. Is more difficult with MK3S, where fan shroud covers the view and so one can hardly see changes on square.

[Mini+] [MK3S+BEAR]...
Posted : 16/11/2021 5:01 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

So I checked and there's nothing under the sheet. The SuperPINDA seems to be at the correct level and is detecting the bed, the red light comes on as expected.

I checked the PTFT tube in the hot-end, all looks good there too.

I did a new first layer recalibration, raised it somewhat and that looks better/ok to me. I tried a 75mm square 0.2mm high test print and it worked pretty well. It also seems to be a pretty accurate height, my cheap calipers think it's between 0.21 and 0.22mm.

I tried a small calibration cube, it's actually not bad, but not perfect.

Now I tried the original print again, its still curling up from the bed. This is with the smooth sheet, Prusament PLA, default settings.

So what should I try now?

Thanks Guys!

 

Posted : 17/11/2021 4:29 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

The calibration square and the cube look pretty decent, from here. Now my money is on the sheet and adhesion issues. Have you cleaned it thoroughly with hot water and dishwashing soap? 

Posted : 17/11/2021 5:28 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

So I have done, a few days back, I'll definitely try again.

Posted : 17/11/2021 7:06 pm
PaulB
(@paulb)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

OK, thank you, I am now getting decent prints. I'm always confused when I get it working again, as although washing the sheet was the final fix, I dont think it was the main issue all along, I think it was likely a few things.

I guess I still have a lot to learn, but thanks for your help guys, its much appreciated. 

I even think that my dry box was causing some drag to the filament feeding, I think the bearings that the filament rolls run on require lubrication. For the final tests, i've been using the normal filament stand.

Posted : 18/11/2021 10:55 am
languer liked
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Noble Member
RE: Having all sorts of issues!

Glad you're back in business. I think your experience just reflects the state of this technology: more art than science, with a bit of voodoo mixed in for good measure.

Posted : 18/11/2021 11:56 am
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