Steel smooth PEI  

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econdes
(@econdes)
New Member

How much time of use must it take for the cover of the steel sheets to start peeling off? I know that will happen with time, but I just received my printer two days ago, and I find it ridiculous that the cover is already bubbly and coming off after only two prints.Cover peeling off

Posted : 17/04/2021 7:26 pm
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Honorable Member

Can we see a picture?  Which filament are you printing?

It is easy to rip the cover off if you print PETG or Flex without seperator.  See the recommendations for different materials in the manual.

PLA does not need any seperator 'though sheets do bubble up sometimes at the corners of strongly adhering prints, this recovers, usually during the next print.

Cheerio,

 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago 2 times by Diem
Posted : 18/04/2021 4:03 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

Damage to the surface is common if you print an overly adhesive filament or your Z Offset is too low.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 18/04/2021 1:17 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Noble Member
Posted by: @econdes

How much time of use must it take for the cover of the steel sheets to start peeling off? I know that will happen with time, but I just received my printer two days ago, and I find it ridiculous that the cover is already bubbly and coming off after only two prints.Cover peeling off

When I first got the Prusa, I learned the hard way that the PEI sheets can't take a joke like the glass plates can.  I got impatient with an ABS print and used a kitchen implement to pry it off, along with a couple of pieces of the coating.  Lesson learned!  Use a release agent with ABS, PETg, PC Blend and anything else that sticks very well.  Also, let the print and the plate cool down to almost room temperature before attempting to remove.

Posted : 18/04/2021 2:59 pm
econdes
(@econdes)
New Member

@diem

Here is a link to a picture.

I am using ABS

Posted : 19/04/2021 12:03 am
econdes
(@econdes)
New Member

@cwbullet

I will take that into consideration but I don't think my Z offset is too low. If it were too low I would expect scrape marks in the form of lines, which is not the case

Posted : 19/04/2021 12:06 am
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Honorable Member

@econdes

Not quite sharp enough to see exactly what's going on 🙁

BTW, upload pictures with the Add Media button at top left of the form.

It looks like a raised patch - if these are bubbles then they should recover in time, if the surface has been removed then, yes, that patch is unusable.  The other side of the plate presumably remains in good condition so not all is lost and it should be possible to place smaller objects on the bed to avoid that spot...

ABS stickability is slightly better than PLA, small prints don't really need seperator, just leave the print to cool completely before removing - but ABS is much more likely to warp and pull on the print surface, this the cause of bubbling with larger prints.  Definitely avoid printing the same part on the same bed in succession, you will repeatedly stress the same areas.

You might try a sparing wipe with window cleaner or well diluted glue stick but you risk reducing the adhesion too far and incurring all the problems associated with that.

A surprising number of users spoil their first steel sheet at the outset, perhaps we should advise potential buyers to order a cheap 'Factory Seconds' sheet for their first experiments.  I still have a sheet that has done hundreds of hours printing over three years and whilst it's no longer perfect, I have another for fine prints, it is still in regular use for early prototyping and difficult filaments, yes it does still bubble up from time to time.

I suspect the satin sheets are best with ABS but I haven't managed to get one yet, demand exceeds supply, perhaps someone luckier can confirm..?

Cheerio,

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Diem
Posted : 20/04/2021 11:48 am
econdes
(@econdes)
New Member

@diem

The original post used the Add media button, but as everyone has noticed that did not work. That is why I posted the link. Indeed they started as bubbles and most of them recovered, but these three peeled off. I will try the window cleaner solution you mention.

Posted : 20/04/2021 8:57 pm
Dan Rogers
(@dan-rogers)
Honorable Member

Cannot tell from the picture if the PEI in those bright areas is just lifted up or gone.

If lifted up, turn it over.  It'll heal.  You need to get the PEI back in touch with the glue.

This is typical of printing things like PETG on the smooth sheet.  You will want to start thinking about a release agent that is suitable for the material you are printing.  For PETG, spritz with windex and wipe off with paper towel as it is heating up.

For higher temp materials - new "over adhesion" strategies are needed.

It should be easy to just rub the sheet back on the glue with your finger and be really careful from now on.  PEI sheets are wear parts, and can be had from several sources.  You can also buy the sheets and DIY the re-skinning - it's not that big a job, but it does involve some noxious chemicals so best done outside, with gloves, in a large pan, and do both sides at the same go.  The solvents that will take the glue off will damage the other side - so you might want to hold off and go one-sided for now.  I have one sheet (my battle sheet) that was the second one I damaged with petg (third side damaged before I learned about windex).  I print that on one side only and when that good side is worn out, I'll do the PEI replacement on my two smooth steel sheets that are damaged.  I also have a third fairly new double sided PEI smooth sheet that I am religious about windex with.  It's got signs of wear (I print nearly continuously) - but it's still good.

 

Posted : 21/04/2021 12:27 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Noble Member

If you look closely at this image, you can see where mine was damaged.  Look to the upper left of the piece on the plate.  The PEI coating was ripped clean off.  I can still use it for smaller prints, and for this one, I was using it for one of my first PC Blend prints when I was unsure of how firmly the prints would stick, and was warned that they could be difficult to remove.  Your image above, which is kind of hard to see really how extensive any damage is, does not look nearly as bad as mine.

Posted : 21/04/2021 12:41 am
Dan Rogers
(@dan-rogers)
Honorable Member

Good to know I'm not the only one who tore a hole in their sheet 😉

 

Posted : 21/04/2021 12:42 am
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Noble Member
Posted by: @dan-rogers

Good to know I'm not the only one who tore a hole in their sheet 😉

I think it happens more than many people admit.  (And yes, I do get the sly double-meaning.) 😉

Anyone who learned to print on glass plates knows how strongly some prints can stick, and how those borosilicate glass plates can take quite a bit of abuse without complaining, and have used razor knives and spatulas and implements of destruction to release some prints.

Posted : 21/04/2021 1:27 am
Clarmrrsn
(@clarmrrsn)
Honorable Member

I almost needed a change of underwear after my first large flat print, ran overnight, had cooled for 4 hours so twisted the steel sheet as it was stuck like s#$% to a blanket.

It came off not too bad, but noticed where the corners were had lifted the pei slightly.  But seems to be very good at self healing.

Didn't stop my heart rate increasing when I saw it....Nooooooooooo 🤯🥺

Tank you very much!...
Posted : 21/04/2021 9:31 am
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Illustrious Member

@clarmrrsn

That is one reason why large PC Blend prints are verboten on my printers.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog...
Posted : 21/04/2021 10:43 am
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