Very poor print quality after firmware 4.1.0 upgrade on Mini
 

Very poor print quality after firmware 4.1.0 upgrade on Mini  

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zoltan
(@zoltan)
Member Moderator

@stephensmith

do I understand well, your problem is gone? 

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.9.0, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.1.0, technical background...
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:59 am
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

I suppose its difficult not to complain after hours of troubleshooting, the joy of 3d printing I suppose. I do think at least for  some people new to 3d printing it may put them off for good, which is not what we want.

Anyway, I decided to work my way through this list it may help others with similar issues. I did see similar issues before the firmware upgrade so I doubt its that for me anyway. If a downgrade is possible (ive not looked yet) I'll attempt the same on the previous version.  

1st up, temp tower.

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/fespr7/amysvery_lame_guide_to_inconsistent_layer_line/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

My settings:

  • default prusament material profile, using galaxy black
  • default 0.2mm quality profile
  • Default mini settings apart from gcode to preheat the bed (to help with mesh bed levelling) and my custom E steps and PID for bondtech. 
  • M301 P17.86 I1.88 D42.50 ; set bondtech PID
    M92 E415 ; set bondtech e steps

As per profile, 215c does seem the sweet spot for prusament as you'd expect. Its interesting it seems worse with lower temps, its best at 215c but not perfect, some banding on the back. 

Ill double check my belts but sure they are fine, ill perform a cold pull but again did that recently. Hotend looks ok, recently did the bondtech heatbreak switch. After this, ill do again on old firmware if I can, then work through the rest in the list. 

 

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Posted : 31/07/2020 11:18 am
zoltan
(@zoltan)
Member Moderator

downgrade is simple,

put the older .bbf file into  root directory of USB, make sure this the only .bbf file in root. insert USB disk in drive, push reset simultaneously with the knob (jogwheel) for 1-3 seconds and the boot loader will ask you, if you want to flash the firmware, push yes and is done 😉 

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.9.0, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.1.0, technical background...
Posted : 31/07/2020 6:19 pm
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

Ah I did not realise it was just the same as an update, that makes it easy. I printed the same file on previous firmware, looked pretty much the same with the banding, I actually stopped the print half way through (on the right in photo), I only have one spool of prusament and really don't want to waste all of it.

It does prove its not the firmware.

I decided to tighten the belts (a little more than I usually would) and perform a cold pull along with inserting a needle to sure the nozzle/hot end was clean. 

Tried the exact same file again, same result, all those lines, poor quality. I've had one or two good prints from this same spool so I'm sure its not the filament. I've actually had issues with other filaments, gaps/zits and stringing especially when printing circular objects which I've talked about in another post and is why I switched ti prusament for my testing.

I got two good prints when switching then this new issue appeared. Both before and after the bondtech installs I experienced issues with the quality of my prints, meaning the bondtech extruder and heatbreak has not improved anything, or made anything worse. 

In this last print after the cold pull and belts I was watching the screen for a while and noticed when on the 210c block the temperature woukd fluctuate between 208-212c, going up to 212 slowly then back down to 208, then back up, incrementing every 5-10 seconds.

I've not noticed this much variation in temp before, and I don't think it was there on previous prints however I could be mistaken.

Would this be enough to cause my issues? I did change the PID values the other day so could be that, although I did have the banding issue before the PID update. 

For comparison a previous print from the same filament on the left, one of my only good ones. 

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Posted : 31/07/2020 10:42 pm
zoltan
(@zoltan)
Member Moderator

Did you make any HW changes?

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.9.0, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.1.0, technical background...
Posted : 01/08/2020 4:43 am
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

Bondtech heatbreak and extruder, thats all. I was getting terrible prints before and after the upgrade, didn't seem to make any difference. I was wanting to avoid another support ticket, however do you think its likely now?

Is your heatsink on the hotend warm to the touch? Mine is cold, i feel no heat there, just wondered if it was normal?

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Posted : 01/08/2020 11:59 am
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

I could not install the provided ptfe from bondtech it just would not fit so used the existing.  I might revert to stock with a new ptfe to see if any difference before i do anything else.

I did also notice when doing the cold pull that there is a little bit of friction when pushing the filament in then removing, like its catching a little bit between the transition, it did this with stock and bondtech.

 

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Posted : 01/08/2020 12:14 pm
zoltan
(@zoltan)
Member Moderator

@thomas-b13

Can you please provide the history? I am a bit lost.

You bought the mini and immediately changed the heatbreak and extruder?

Or later? What was the reason for change?

When the troubles started - before or after hw change?

Prints with original hw  parts were bad?

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.9.0, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.1.0, technical background...
Posted : 01/08/2020 6:01 pm
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

I bought the mini (1st batch),  right away I had issues with bed levelling but this was eventually solved with a new probe and preheating the bed after a support ticket.

After this initial prints were ok apart from anything circular which is when I experienced lots of gaps/zits. Gradually things started to get worse to the point of printing anything with 3rd party PLA resulted in terrible quality most of the time.

This was new filament, different brands which printed fine on my other machines however I did dry them in a filament dryer which made no difference.

After trying a million different variations in print settings I followed the guides on the forum to re seat the hot end, tighten belts, basically everything that was listed for troubleshooting in the new users thread.

No improvement at all , however I noticed that turning off retraction completely resulted in a smooth surface for circular objects free of gaps/zits. This did result in a lot of stringing though so not really a solution. I decided it could be the heatbreak so ordered the bondtech one, at the same time I bought the bondtech extruder also (this was not to fix the issue, I just got it at the same time, I have bondtech on all my other machines, Raise 3d, Wanhao).

I installed both, updated the gcode for esteps and PID and the result was no difference, pre and post prints I was trying at the time were the same. 

It was at this point I bought Prusament and tried that. I had a few good prints on circular objects but then experienced this banding issue. I'm sure if I switch back to the other filament I was using I'd probably get a combination of banding and gaps/zits. 

The last photo I posted the left and right objects were printed at the same time, the left good, the right not. 

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Posted : 01/08/2020 8:35 pm
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

Took apart the hotend and this time inserted the PTFE provided by Bondtech. Whats odd is i couldn't insert it into the heatbreak before but now it fits, it must be slightly larger than the Prusa PTFE.

Anyway, according to instructions insert heatbreak, secure then insert PTFE from the top. This was very difficult to do, even inserting the PTFE into the heatbreak then inserting in one go into the heatsink and it wouldn't go in, its as if the heatsink opening is too small.

After many tries and manoeuvring I eventually got it in and printed the temp tower, much improved but not perfect. I then printed some parts I've had trouble with right after and banding was back. The banding does seem to stop on both parts at the same time, however back again further towards the top.

 

 

 

 

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Posted : 03/08/2020 10:39 am
zoltan
(@zoltan)
Member Moderator

Are you sure, it is a nozzle problem, and not an  X,Y  movement issue? How those bended lines look from inside?

Or some temporary over extrusion due to material inconsistency?

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.9.0, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.1.0, technical background...
Posted : 03/08/2020 10:48 am
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

Well things did improve a lot after I put the hotend back together, so that was def a factor, however you could be right, although the x/y do look ok I've not had chance to really watch the printer when this issue crops up so I'm not ruling them out.

I have set the same print off at the opposite side of the bed (still waiting for it to finish), front right and so far its better also, banding has reduced a lot compared to the previous print, will see what it looks like when finished.

I'm going to take apart the end of the x asis  when its done see if anything is wrong.

As for material inconsistency, its prusament and according to the label it should be fine however ill get the calipers out to check again as I'm in the middle of the spool now.

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Posted : 03/08/2020 12:46 pm
zoltan
(@zoltan)
Member Moderator

those "flickering" materials have some admixtures which can make the uneven internal structure 

even an old man can learn new things 🙂
Standard I3 mk3s, FW 3.9.0, no closed box, sketchup , fusion 360, PrusaSlicer, Windows 10
PRUSA MINI FW 4.1.0, technical background...
Posted : 03/08/2020 7:23 pm
atomleef
(@atomleef)
Estimable Member

@robt

did you try change longer ptfe tube in heat block?

Posted : 04/08/2020 10:34 am
thomas.b13
(@thomas-b13)
Eminent Member

@atomleef

Longer than what bondtech provide? The normal prusa ptfe tube is longer, I could try that if that's what you mean?

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Posted : 05/08/2020 5:42 pm
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